[MassHistPres] Name Change

Mon Mar 5 10:49:41 EST 2007

Okay, I have some thoughts on this as well.   I completely agree that 
with others on the grammatical use of 'historic' vs. ' 
historical.'  I appreciate their observations and correct usage of 
the English language.

But, in addition, I would recommend taking the lead from the Town of 
Bedford (Historic Preservation Commission).    What is being 
preserved?   Is it historic structures, wildlife, open space, or 
perhaps jams & jellies?  I think it is important to keep 
'historic/historical' in the commission's name.

At 10:29 AM 3/5/2007, Boston Affiliates wrote:
>Matthew,
>
>Thank you! You just saved this English major, and  probably a lot of
>others, the effort, and said it better than I could have! And I think it
>behooves all of us to keep it as straight as we can - it's confusing enough
>to the public as it is, as Kristi points out. As I recall, that, along with
>the variations all over the country, is why we chose to name it the
>"National Alliance of Preservation Commissions."
>
>Polly Harrell
>
>----------
>
>
>Pauline Chase-Harrell, President
>Boston Affiliates, Inc.
>156 Milk Street
>Boston, MA 02109
>617-451-9450
>(f)617-451-6475
>BostonAffiliates at verizon.net
>(c)617-909-3016
>
>At 09:49 AM 3/5/07, Matthew B. Bronski wrote:
> >My understanding of the distinction between "historic" and "historical"
> >is quite different than that previously stated.
> >
> >When modifying a noun (whether a building, event, object, or whatever),
> >that is itself historic (has significance in history) one uses the
> >adjective "historic."  Hence, the common and proper use of the term
> >"Historic District Commission" - the adjective "historic" modifies the
> >noun district, and the district is in and of itself historic.
> >
> >When modifying a noun that is NOT in and of itself historic, but which
> >relates to things historic, one uses the adjective "historical".  Hence,
> >the common and proper use of the term "Historical Commission" - the noun
> >"Commission" (e.g., the group of people currently serving) is not in and
> >of itself historic, but the Commission relates to things historic (it
> >oversees and protects them, etc.)  Hence "historical" is the proper
> >adjective in "Historical Commission".
> >
> >Consequently, it's not really possible to set strict rules saying that
> >certain nouns (buildings, objects, etc.) are always either "historic" or
> >'historical".
> >
> >For example, while the vast majority of buildings we might deal with on
> >our Commissions are "historic" rather than "historical", a very recent
> >reconstruction of a demolished historic building would not be "historic"
> >at all, but is arguably "historical", as it relates to something
> >historic.  Similarly, with objects, an original Gutenberg Bible is an
> >"historic" object (book), while a recent novel set against the backdrop
> >of significant events in history is often termed an "historical" novel
> >in the literary trades.   "Historic" would not be appropriate in the
> >latter case, because the object (book) itself is not historic, it only
> >relates to something historic (through the subject matter).
> >
> >-Matthew Bronski,
> >Winchester Historical Commission &
> >Boston Society of Architects Historic Resources Committee
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> >[mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Jill Fisher
> >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:43 PM
> >To: KristiChase at post.harvard.edu; cmcarl at mindspring.com;
> >sw.pelton at verizon.net
> >Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> >Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
> >
> >Just a reminder:  "Historic" is used in reference to buildings,
> >structures,
> >objects & "Historical" used for persons and events.  In which case, I
> >believe Historic is more appropriate for commissions that are dealing
> >primarily with the preservation of buildings.
> >
> >Jill Fisher, AICP
> >Principal Planner
> >Larson Fisher Associates, Inc.
> >Historic Preservation & Planning Services
> >PO Box 1394
> >Woodstock, NY  12498
> >845-679-5054
> >jillfisher47 at hotmail.com
> >
> >www.larsonfisher.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Kristi Chase" <KristiChase at post.harvard.edu>
> > >Reply-To: KristiChase at post.harvard.edu
> > >To: <cmcarl at mindspring.com>, "Suzanne W. Pelton"
> ><sw.pelton at verizon.net>
> > >CC: Masshistpres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> > >Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
> > >Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:24:23 -0500
> > >
> > >We frequently take calls for the Historical Society from people that
> >mean
> > >the Historical Commission or vice versa.  I personally don't think it
> > >matters very much.  I believe the distinctions really lie between
> > >"Societies" which are private organizations vs. "Commissions or Boards"
> > >which are governmental.  Most people do not recognize any difference
> > >between
> > >them.
> > >
> > >Kristi Chase
> > >Somerville HPC
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> > >[mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu]On Behalf Of Carol Carlson
> > >Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:05 PM
> > >To: Suzanne W. Pelton
> > >Cc: Masshistpres
> > >Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
> > >
> > >
> > >Suzanne:
> > >Bedford changed the name of the Historical Commission to the Historic
> > >Preservation Commission a few years back.  The only problem I have seen
> > >is when you use the initials - HDC and HPC. Confusing to many.   But if
> > >you are using Lenox Preservation Commission (LPC) that should work
> >fine.
> > >I believe the change of name went on the Warrant for Annual Town
> > >Meeting, where we got to hear the reasons pro and con, and vote.
> > >
> > >Yes, I quite understand that most folks in town don't know the
> > >difference between the three groups.  I hope your newly-named
> >commission
> > >helps.
> > >
> > >Carol Carlson
> > >Bedford HDC
> > >
> > >Suzanne W. Pelton wrote:
> > >
> > > >The Lenox Historical Commission wishes to change its name.
> > > >
> > > >We have these three committees:
> > > >
> > > >Historic District Commission
> > > >Historical Commission
> > > >Historical Society
> > > >
> > > >Most people in town would be hard pressed to tell the difference
> > > >between them, so we're thinking of changing our name to
> > > >Lenox Preservation Commission.
> > > >
> > > >I think I read some time ago that some other towns have done this.
> > > >1 Can you tell me how this is done?
> > > >2 Advantages/disadvatages is any?
> > > >
> > > >Suzanne Pelton
> > > >Secretary
> > > >******************************
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