[MassHistPres] Name change

Mon Mar 5 15:23:38 EST 2007

There will always be confusion in the minds of the public no matter what 
name you pick.  In Arlington we have the Arlington Historical Commission, 
Arlington Historic District Commissions, Arlington Historical Society, and 
Arlington Preservation Fund (which gives out low-interest loans for 
istoric  - or should I say historical? - preservation/restoration projects. 
Each entity gets communications which should be directed to one of the 
others, and, typically they are forwarded or referred, more or less 
promptly, to the correct entity.  An inquiry not entirely out of the 
ordinary is:  "since you put my house into the historical society, am I 
eligible for an historical commission loan?"

J.  Worden
Arlington HDC

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu>
To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 12:00 PM
Subject: MassHistPres Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Name Change (Barbara Wales)
>   2. An Introduction to Historic Preservation Planning
>      (Skelly, Christopher @ SEC)
>   3. Re: Name Change (SCeccacci at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:49:41 -0500
> From: Barbara Wales <BarbaraWales at realtor.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
> To: Boston Affiliates <BostonAffiliates at verizon.net>, "Matthew B.
> Bronski" <MBBronski at sgh.com>, <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070305104040.02855fb0 at realtor.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Okay, I have some thoughts on this as well.   I completely agree that
> with others on the grammatical use of 'historic' vs. '
> historical.'  I appreciate their observations and correct usage of
> the English language.
>
> But, in addition, I would recommend taking the lead from the Town of
> Bedford (Historic Preservation Commission).    What is being
> preserved?   Is it historic structures, wildlife, open space, or
> perhaps jams & jellies?  I think it is important to keep
> 'historic/historical' in the commission's name.
>
>
> At 10:29 AM 3/5/2007, Boston Affiliates wrote:
>>Matthew,
>>
>>Thank you! You just saved this English major, and  probably a lot of
>>others, the effort, and said it better than I could have! And I think it
>>behooves all of us to keep it as straight as we can - it's confusing 
>>enough
>>to the public as it is, as Kristi points out. As I recall, that, along 
>>with
>>the variations all over the country, is why we chose to name it the
>>"National Alliance of Preservation Commissions."
>>
>>Polly Harrell
>>
>>----------
>>
>>
>>Pauline Chase-Harrell, President
>>Boston Affiliates, Inc.
>>156 Milk Street
>>Boston, MA 02109
>>617-451-9450
>>(f)617-451-6475
>>BostonAffiliates at verizon.net
>>(c)617-909-3016
>>
>>At 09:49 AM 3/5/07, Matthew B. Bronski wrote:
>> >My understanding of the distinction between "historic" and "historical"
>> >is quite different than that previously stated.
>> >
>> >When modifying a noun (whether a building, event, object, or whatever),
>> >that is itself historic (has significance in history) one uses the
>> >adjective "historic."  Hence, the common and proper use of the term
>> >"Historic District Commission" - the adjective "historic" modifies the
>> >noun district, and the district is in and of itself historic.
>> >
>> >When modifying a noun that is NOT in and of itself historic, but which
>> >relates to things historic, one uses the adjective "historical".  Hence,
>> >the common and proper use of the term "Historical Commission" - the noun
>> >"Commission" (e.g., the group of people currently serving) is not in and
>> >of itself historic, but the Commission relates to things historic (it
>> >oversees and protects them, etc.)  Hence "historical" is the proper
>> >adjective in "Historical Commission".
>> >
>> >Consequently, it's not really possible to set strict rules saying that
>> >certain nouns (buildings, objects, etc.) are always either "historic" or
>> >'historical".
>> >
>> >For example, while the vast majority of buildings we might deal with on
>> >our Commissions are "historic" rather than "historical", a very recent
>> >reconstruction of a demolished historic building would not be "historic"
>> >at all, but is arguably "historical", as it relates to something
>> >historic.  Similarly, with objects, an original Gutenberg Bible is an
>> >"historic" object (book), while a recent novel set against the backdrop
>> >of significant events in history is often termed an "historical" novel
>> >in the literary trades.   "Historic" would not be appropriate in the
>> >latter case, because the object (book) itself is not historic, it only
>> >relates to something historic (through the subject matter).
>> >
>> >-Matthew Bronski,
>> >Winchester Historical Commission &
>> >Boston Society of Architects Historic Resources Committee
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
>> >[mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Jill Fisher
>> >Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:43 PM
>> >To: KristiChase at post.harvard.edu; cmcarl at mindspring.com;
>> >sw.pelton at verizon.net
>> >Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> >Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
>> >
>> >Just a reminder:  "Historic" is used in reference to buildings,
>> >structures,
>> >objects & "Historical" used for persons and events.  In which case, I
>> >believe Historic is more appropriate for commissions that are dealing
>> >primarily with the preservation of buildings.
>> >
>> >Jill Fisher, AICP
>> >Principal Planner
>> >Larson Fisher Associates, Inc.
>> >Historic Preservation & Planning Services
>> >PO Box 1394
>> >Woodstock, NY  12498
>> >845-679-5054
>> >jillfisher47 at hotmail.com
>> >
>> >www.larsonfisher.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: "Kristi Chase" <KristiChase at post.harvard.edu>
>> > >Reply-To: KristiChase at post.harvard.edu
>> > >To: <cmcarl at mindspring.com>, "Suzanne W. Pelton"
>> ><sw.pelton at verizon.net>
>> > >CC: Masshistpres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>> > >Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
>> > >Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:24:23 -0500
>> > >
>> > >We frequently take calls for the Historical Society from people that
>> >mean
>> > >the Historical Commission or vice versa.  I personally don't think it
>> > >matters very much.  I believe the distinctions really lie between
>> > >"Societies" which are private organizations vs. "Commissions or 
>> > >Boards"
>> > >which are governmental.  Most people do not recognize any difference
>> > >between
>> > >them.
>> > >
>> > >Kristi Chase
>> > >Somerville HPC
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
>> > >[mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu]On Behalf Of Carol Carlson
>> > >Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:05 PM
>> > >To: Suzanne W. Pelton
>> > >Cc: Masshistpres
>> > >Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Suzanne:
>> > >Bedford changed the name of the Historical Commission to the Historic
>> > >Preservation Commission a few years back.  The only problem I have 
>> > >seen
>> > >is when you use the initials - HDC and HPC. Confusing to many.   But 
>> > >if
>> > >you are using Lenox Preservation Commission (LPC) that should work
>> >fine.
>> > >I believe the change of name went on the Warrant for Annual Town
>> > >Meeting, where we got to hear the reasons pro and con, and vote.
>> > >
>> > >Yes, I quite understand that most folks in town don't know the
>> > >difference between the three groups.  I hope your newly-named
>> >commission
>> > >helps.
>> > >
>> > >Carol Carlson
>> > >Bedford HDC
>> > >
>> > >Suzanne W. Pelton wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >The Lenox Historical Commission wishes to change its name.
>> > > >
>> > > >We have these three committees:
>> > > >
>> > > >Historic District Commission
>> > > >Historical Commission
>> > > >Historical Society
>> > > >
>> > > >Most people in town would be hard pressed to tell the difference
>> > > >between them, so we're thinking of changing our name to
>> > > >Lenox Preservation Commission.
>> > > >
>> > > >I think I read some time ago that some other towns have done this.
>> > > >1 Can you tell me how this is done?
>> > > >2 Advantages/disadvatages is any?
>> > > >
>> > > >Suzanne Pelton
>> > > >Secretary
>> > > >******************************
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>
> Barbara Wales
> William Raveis Real Estate
> 10 Langley Road
> Newton Centre, MA  02459
>
> Access Line: 617.762.4073  (messaging, faxing, connecting via mobile 
> phone)
> BarbaraWales at realtor.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:03:00 -0500
> From: "Skelly, Christopher @ SEC" <Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us>
> Subject: [MassHistPres] An Introduction to Historic Preservation
> Planning
> To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <4B9743DC9631164FA8ED1AAC579277AF0D6469 at PROD-MSG01.prod.sec.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> AN INTRODUCTION TO HISTORIC PRESERVATION PLANNING
>
> The Massachusetts Historical Commission, with the Palmer Historical 
> Commission, will hold an "Introduction to Historic Preservation Planning" 
> in Palmer, Massachusetts on Thursday, March 29, 2007 from 2 to 4pm at the 
> Palmer Public Library.  This presentation is primarily for local 
> historical commission members.  However, anyone interested in 
> understanding the basic techniques for protecting historic resources in 
> their community will find the program useful.
>
> Please RSVP to Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us.
> If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
>
> If you are interested in hosting a regional meeting in your community, 
> please contact me for an MHC On the Road request form.
>
> Chris.
>
> Christopher C. Skelly
> Director of Local Government Programs
> Massachusetts Historical Commission
> 220 Morrissey Boulevard, Boston, MA 02125
> Ph: (617) 727-8470 / Fax: (617) 727-5128
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:52:57 EST
> From: SCeccacci at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Name Change
> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID: <d41.3ab5eb2.331da4e9 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> As the former chairman of the Holden Historical Commission, I am acutely
> aware of the public's confusion about the various organizations that look 
> out
> for matters regarding the history, historical artifacts, and  historical
> resources of the town.
>
> I agree that it would help to limit the number of organizations to make it
> all less confusing.  However, I believe that it would not be possible  to
> include a private historical society under the title of Preservation 
> Commission?
> The historical society, historical commission, and  historic district
> commission do not all operate under town by-laws.  Only  the historical 
> commission and
> historic district commission are town  commissions.  I believe that 
> placing
> the historical commission and  historic district commission under a single
> heading would be possible if the two  were merged into a single entity 
> with a
> single chairman and a single set of  committee members, since they are 
> both
> commissions with a role in town  government.
>
> I would suggest merging the two town commissions, giving it a new  name, 
> and
> then publicizing the difference between the private group of  people
> interested in town history (historical society) and the commission which 
> is charged by
> the town with oversight of its historical resources.
>
> Susan McDaniel Ceccacci
> Historic Preservation Consultant
> Jefferson, Massachusetts
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> End of MassHistPres Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5
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