[MassHistPres] Fwd: Entering Historic District Signs

Fri May 9 14:41:24 EDT 2008

Jim

Brookline's signs which date from 1937 http://www.highstreethill.org/ 
signs/types.html are recognized as historic as long as they are in  
LHDs and not on official state or federal highways -- not an issue in  
any of our LHDs.  Otherwise the MUTCD (Manual of Uniform Traffic  
Control Devices http://www.highstreethill.org/signs/regulations.html)  
applies -- which is as opaque as an astrology book.  For streets  
below a certain speeds, signs with smaller letters may still be  
used.  For higher speed streets the new larger letters are needed.   
In reading the MUTCD it is important to separate "shoulds" (optional)  
from "shalls" (mandatory).  The only shall re street name signs is  
retroreflectivity.  Post construction, letter sizes, font, and color  
are presently "shoulds."  Most faux historic street name signs around  
the country use the new bigger 6" letters with distinctive colors and  
often distinctive typefaces.

The highway dept. may assert that it is their call but they work for  
the Selectmen.  You have to read the MUTCD very carefully and fully  
understand what is "should" and what is "shall" and don't take on  
face value any claims about "federal mandates"

For instance Boston does not use breakaway posts for street signs  
because they consider them dangerous.  For that matter, the MUTCD  
assumes that there will be street name signs at every intersection.   
However, we all know of the old New England tradition of not telling  
you the name of the street you are on (always the more important  
street) but only of the cross streets -- on the theory that no one  
could be so stupid as to not know what street they are on.  Contra  
the implicit assumption of the MUTCD, this practice continues in  
Mass. with the knowledge of MassHighway.

On any state funded road MassHighway will call the shots and it will  
tend to follow the MUTCD.  However MassHighway has also recently  
published a new context-friendly highway design manual (thanks to the  
enlightened current Commissioner), of which everyone trying to  
preserve historic environments in the face of highways design changes  
should be aware.

Dennis

On May 9, 2008, at 1:53 PM, James Hadley wrote:

> Does this only apply to MA local historical districts or would NR  
> historic districts qualify? By this I refer to the Town's possible  
> restrictions on signage. Or is it the Town Hwy Dept's call?
> Jim Hadley, Orleans Histrorical Commission
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis De Witt" <djdewitt at rcn.com>
> To: "MHC listserve" <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 1:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: Entering Historic District Signs
>
>
>> For years Brookline's two oldest LHDs have had I think three signs
>> each on posts on principal streets.  They are cast bronze, made in
>> the manner of wall plaques.  They are too expensive to replicate and
>> at least one was stolen, I assume for the metal.  Not a practical
>> solution.  We do not consider them a legal requirement.  Some
>> consideration has been given to replicating the town's historical
>> cast aluminum street name signs in all 5 LHDs at those intersections
>> where they do not survive, to give the LHDs a consistent appearance.
>> Thus far inertia and/or the press of more immediate matters was  
>> won out.
>>
>> Altho it is not what we would be doing, it is very common throughout
>> the country for historic districts to have unique "historic" looking
>> street name signs of various sorts, often carrying some special ID of
>> the LHD either as part of the sign blade, as a "bump" on top of the
>> blade or as as finial on top of the pole.  Lakeshore industries is
>> one source of such signs.
>>
>> Googling various combinations of "Historic" and "street name sign"
>> etc. will lead to lots of examples.
>>
>> Dennis De Witt
>> Brookline
>>
>>
>> On May 9, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Dcolebslade at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________
>>>  From: Dcolebslade
>>> To: rfsbys at verizon.net
>>> Sent: 5/9/2008 12:42:22 P.M.  Eastern Daylight Time
>>> Subj: Re: [MassHistPres] Entering Historic District  Signs
>>>
>>>
>>> Westport has an entry sign.  The local neighborhood  association
>>> maintains
>>> it.  Many people drive through the district slowly  looking at the
>>> buildings.
>>>
>>> Betty Slade
>>> Westport
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 5/9/2008 12:40:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> rfsbys at verizon.net writes:
>>>
>>> Bedford is wondering how many nearby towns have posted  "Entering/
>>> Leaving the
>>> Historic District" signs - comments pro or con?
>>> Bob  Slechta
>>> CLG coord.
>>> Bedford
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