[MassHistPres] Sunroom addition

Fri May 30 14:10:08 EDT 2008

Hi Rosemary

Just a couple of further elaborations on your thoughts, based on our  
experience.

You can get the Velux ganged flashing in copper and it can be  
extended into a copper "roof" for the residual area of the  
structure.  That is what we did -- with flat continuously soldered  
seams everywhere.

We have a venting Franke skylight over our stairwell which I think is  
a more elegant design -- especially the manual winder pole and lifter  
-- which has never leaked.  But they were never available in many  
sizes and seem to have been merged into some other company.  We have  
10 Veluxes in our greenhouse.  Two or three at one end seem to drip  
occasionally in a heavy rain after a very long dry spell and under  
unusual icing conditions.  It happens a few times a year -- maybe a  
cup of water.  We have a heated stone floor and a tile table top, so  
it just comes with the territory.  Also, we have pushed Veluxe's roof  
pitch minimum by about 2°

One mistake was not bringing the flashing down far enough behind the  
wood gutters so that ice dams after a heavy snow can be a problem.  A  
snow rake has solved that.

I agree about solar gain.  Ours, which faces south, only works  
because there is a tree which leafs out in the summer, substantially  
shading it.

We tried to get several of the English Greenhouse people to do one  
with double hung sash as I described.  Most wouldn't.  The others  
were prohibitively expensive because it was non-standard.

We had the single glazed windows made by "Sun Architectural" a very  
small firm in the woods in Maine, matching the elegant muntin  
profiles of our house.  We used Harvey tru-channel storms but if  
doing it again I would look at the permanent wood framed low-e storms  
with built in sliding lower sash and screens that are now available.   
Essentially this combination is as energy efficient as something like  
Marvins and they won't fail and need replacement every 20 years.

We and our cats love the hot-water radiant heated floor but, by  
itself, it cannot quite cope with a really cold winter day --  
especially first thing in the morning.  A very inconspicuous 1500  
watt little electric fan-heater, half the size of a shoe box, gets it  
to a comfortably temp by the time breakfast is made and on the table.

This "breakfast room," where we eat all our meals, is the smallest  
but most intensely used room in our house.

Dennis

On May 30, 2008, at 12:41 PM, Rosemary Foy wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> I am in complete agreement on every single point you made,  
> especially about
> the nature of the English design aesthetic (meant to go with a late
> Victorian house) and very different climate. I was hoping that  
> since so many
> of the firms listed do custom work, one could devise an attractive,
> practical design with the "greenhouse" glass only at a more  
> standard window
> height level. I wonder about the pre-fab wall enclosure systems that
> Artistic Enclosures offer -- they'd be smart to offer as a choice a  
> solid
> panel bottom portion that fits with a glazed upper portion.
>
> I would also possibly add an ordinary roof -- perhaps standing seam
> copper/metal, to further insulate for winter & cool in the summer. The
> wonderful conservatory effect could then be completed with tall narrow
> windows, and an authentic lantern on top, and even roof cresting/ 
> finial if
> you really wanted the full effect. As for the interior, floor tiles  
> and a
> ceiling fan would round out the impression.
>
> Yes, by omission, I was suggesting that the "1970's" molded types of
> "sunrooms" with extruded metal frames are definitely to be avoided  
> in a
> historical setting. As for skylights, my 11-year old Velux has  
> never leaked,
> but located at the south elevation as it is, it creates the worst of
> situations in our family room: freezing in the winter, and boiling  
> in the
> summer. (And this is in a new construction rear addition with  
> Marvin windows
> and a French door.) Don't do it!!
>
> Anyway, thank you, Dennis, for elaborating.
>
> Rosemary Battles Foy
> Brookline
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis De Witt
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:06 AM
> To: MHC listserve
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Sunroom addition
>
> If I might add some thoughts to Rosemary's exhaustive list, based on
> personal research and experience.
>
> I have been in the Glass House production shop in Pomfret and was  
> impressed
> by the quality.  Ditto re another firm called Colebrook in Winsted  
> Conn.,
> which she doesn't mention and which may not survive.
>
> I would agree that something like this should only go on the back --
> especially of an 1812 house.
>
> It looks like she has appropriately ignored the typical "1970s"
> greenhouses, like Four-Seasons, which often are about as durable and
> inappropriate as a 1970s solar collector.
>
> Most of these are in style and construction "english" greenhouses.
> The original designs were intended for the english climate -- nor  
> were they
> originally designed for human occupation -- nor necessarily for use  
> in all
> seasons.  But that isn't the way people see them here
> -- which can cause problems.   Many of them are rather lightly built  
> -- England does not see our snow loads.  Many do not have very good
> ventilation -- England has mild cloudy summers compared to ours.   
> And mild
> winters compared to ours.
>
> The typical english greenhouse may be more compatible in scale and
> temperament with a later Victorian house.
>
> Let me suggest an alternative that might be much more comfortable  
> with an
> 1812 house.  It is possible to make an addition entirely out of sash
> windows, whose walls will have 80% of the glass area, above the  
> sill line
> where it matters, with solid wall below, where the snow accumulates  
> in our
> climate, and to make a roof that is 80% glass out of Veluxes, which  
> are
> available with ganged flashing.  They can be supported on gluelams  
> with
> appropriate trim to produce an elegant greenhouse like effect from the
> inside which is much more compatible with the appearance of the  
> house and
> will have much better ventilation from its sash widows and venting
> skylights.
>
> Note.  All skylights leak at least a little under unpredictable
> circumstances, I would not suggest a drywall interior.  Varnished  
> wood,
> doesn't care.
>
> Based on my experience, such a design, elegantly crafted by a good  
> finish
> carpenter will be less expensive per SF (but still not cheap ) than a
> comparable quality "English" greenhouse.
>
> Dennis De Witt
>
> Brookline
>
>
> On May 30, 2008, at 10:02 AM, Rosemary Foy wrote:
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> The latest issue of Period Homes has a "Conservatories &  
>> Outbuildings"
>> listing, and from that, it looks as though you have at least seven
>> good possibilities, all on the East coast:
>>
>> 1. Artistic Enclosures out of Barto, PA - "pre-constructed wall
>> systems" for conservatories, sun/screen rooms, porch enclosures. May
>> be a less expensive option than the others?
>>
>> 2. Glass House, LLC out of Pomfret, CT - fabricator & installer  of
>> traditional conservatories, greenhouses, sunrooms, roof lanters,
>> specialty skylights. Mahogany or aluminum frame, true divided lite
>> windows & doors, custom fabrication.
>>
>> 3. Oak Leaf Conservatories of York out of Atlanta, GA - Designer,
>> custom fabricator & installer "Authentic British" conservatories,
>> orangeries, garden rooms, glass domes. Hand-crafted in England,
>> mortise-and-tenon, mahogany, you get the drift.
>>
>> 4. Renaissance Conservatories out of Leola, PA - Custom fabricator &
>> installer of traditional conservatories, sunroooms, greenhouses,
>> skylights, roof lanters, garden houses, pool enclosures, etc.  
>> Mahogany
>> & cedar.
>>
>> 5. Solar Innovations, Inc. out of Myerstown, PA - Designer,  
>> fabricator
>> & installer of aluminum and wood glazed structures: skylights,
>> sunrooms,greenhouses, conservatories, folding & sliding doors,
>> walkways, canopies, etc.
>>
>> 6. Tanglewood Conservatories, Ltd. Out of Denton, MD - Designer,
>> manufacturer &  installer of traditional wood conservatories, roof
>> lanterns & other glass architecture: sunrooms, pool enclosures,
>> greenhouses, follies, gazebos and pavillions; skylights, cresting and
>> finials.
>>
>> 7. Ward Greenhouses out of Concord, MA - Supplier of greenhouses
>> constructed from new & antique greenhouse materials. Large inventory
>> of antique greenhouses from Lord & Burnham, Lutton, King, Hitchings.
>> Restoration work
>> too. Sounds like just horticultural greenhouses?
>>
>> Judging from the photographs supplied, they all have traditional
>> styling either Classical or Gothic, that would work fine with a New
>> England house on a Common. Would suggest putting it at the rear
>> elevation, given the setting.
>> Be careful, too, because some of these designs can get a little
>> over-wrought.
>>
>> I hope that this helps. Feel free to contact me if you need  
>> assistance
>> with legwork, sympathetic architectural styles or a historical
>> viewpoint.
>>
>>
>> Rosemary Battles Foy
>> Architectural Historian & Preservation Consultant 230  Buckminster
>> Road Brookline, MA 02445
>> 617-851-7035
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
>> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
>> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 5:23 AM
>> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> Subject: [MassHistPres] Sunroom addition
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Does anyone have a recommendation for glass sunroom providers or  
>> ideas
>> about glass sunrooms that might be compatible with a c. 1810 home  
>> on a
>> Common? Is there such a thing available? Any leads would be
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Jeff Kotkin
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