[MassHistPres] MassHistPres Digest, Vol 46, Issue 5
D. Mauch
dmauch at verizon.net
Thu Dec 3 14:39:00 EST 2009
The fact that the Selectmen chose to discuss a particular topic/issue
at their so-called 6 p.m. non-descript "workshop," THAT WAS LISTED on
their 7p.m. agenda should be referred to the State Ethics Commission
for review. It may well constitute a violation of the Open Meeting Law!
On Dec 3, 2009, at 1:46 PM, masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 1857 House in Historic District Slated for Demolition
> (jahillsr at comcast.net)
> 2. Re: MassHistPres Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4 (D. Mauch)
> 3. Re: 1857 House in Historic District Slated for Demolition
> (Mark Voigt)
> 4. Re: 1857 House in Historic District Slated for Demolition
> (jack mac donald)
> 5. Design guidelines (blever3043 at aol.com)
> 6. Picture of 1857 House in Lenox (Suzanne W Pelton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:10:55 +0000
> From: jahillsr at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
> Demolition
> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID:
> <2098220887-1259860197-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-40129021- at bda551.bisx.prod.on.blackberry
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Vote in new Selectmen. Otherwise this action will be repeated in the
> future. In this case I don't see what can be done with the courts.
>
>>> Any ideas you can give us will be most welcome.
>>>
>>> Suzanne Pelton
>>> Lenox Historical Commission
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:18:23 -0500
> From: "D. Mauch" <dmauch at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] MassHistPres Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4
> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID: <C1FC2463-7CFA-4EF3-96F3-88F33A96F239 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> As a former selectman, I used to vehemently oppose my colleagues use
> of so-called informal meetings prior to the on-camera ones. I used to
> call them the "meeting before the meeting." Nevertheless, any time
> there is a quorum of selectmen present to discuss any type of official
> business (excluding of course "executive sessions,") whether in a bar,
> restaurant, town hall or brothel, it's location, date, and time has to
> be posted and the minutes recorded. PERIOD!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:00 PM, masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu wrote:
>
>> Send MassHistPres mailing list submissions to
>> masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> masshistpres-owner at cs.umb.edu
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of MassHistPres digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 1857 House in Historic District Slated for Demolition
>> (Suzanne W Pelton)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:19:54 -0500
>> From: Suzanne W Pelton <sw.pelton at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated
>> for
>> Demolition
>> To: "Kathryn M. Greenfield" <kgreenfield at comcast.net>
>> Cc: LHC at cs.umb.edu, MassHistPres MA <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>> Message-ID: <072391B2-AE45-4C06-9F53-6BB613443F50 at verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
>> DelSp="yes"
>>
>> Selects agenda says 6 pm Workshop -no description
>> 7 pm all the subjects to be discussed including "Dilapidated Building
>> Status, Church Street"
>> During the 7 pm portion the announcement was made that the house
>> would be demolished, no comments from the floor were sought.
>>
>> Suzanne
>> Lenox
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Kathryn M. Greenfield wrote:
>>
>>> It sounds like the Selectmen's meeting was not duly posted (if it
>>> began before their posted time), and therefore any decision that
>>> came out of it is not valid. They have to have a public
>>> discussion. They can't meet, unposted, then advise you the next
>>> day of what happened. That is ludicrous.
>>>
>>> K. Greenfield
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne W Pelton"
>>> <sw.pelton at verizon.net>
>>> To: "MassHistPres MA" <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>>> Cc: <LHC at cs.umb.edu>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:43 AM
>>> Subject: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
>>> Demolition
>>>
>>>
>>>> I hope someone has a last minute effort to suggest for this
>>>> unexpected development:
>>>>
>>>> A month ago the Lenox HDC denied a permit for demolition for an
>>>> 1857 house in the Historic District and we breathed a sign of
>>>> relief. Now, all of a sudden today, chairs of the HDC and HC were
>>>> advised of a "workshop" (off-camera, no minutes) the Select Board
>>>> held last night before their regularly scheduled meeting, to
>>>> "discuss" the house. The owner refuses to make repairs. An
>>>> independent engineer reported the house was unsafe and it has
>>>> been boarded up. Now the building inspector says the house must
>>>> be demolished--probably within 24 hours. I've been given til a
>>>> brief respite to see if there is anything we are missing to
>>>> prevent its demolition. Lenox does not have a Minimum Maintenance
>>>> Ordinance or a Demolition Delay Bylaw but it seems we're also not
>>>> to be given any time to see if anyone would like to dismantle or
>>>> move the house.
>>>>
>>>> When I asked how it was unsafe, I was told no one could live in
>>>> it. Agreed but that's not the issue, I said. When I asked if it
>>>> was in danger of falling on anyone, all I got was "it's unsafe."
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas you can give us will be most welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Suzanne Pelton
>>>> Lenox Historical Commission
>>>>
>>>> ******************************
>>>> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
>>>> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
>>>> THE WHOLE LIST.
>>>> MassHistPres mailing list
>>>> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>>>> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>>>> ********************************
>>>
>>
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>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> MassHistPres mailing list
>> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>>
>>
>> End of MassHistPres Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4
>> *******************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 12:36:40 -0500
> From: Mark Voigt <MVoigt at nantucket-ma.gov>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
> Demolition
> To: "'Suzanne W Pelton'" <sw.pelton at verizon.net>, MassHistPres MA
> <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Cc: "LHC at cs.umb.edu" <LHC at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <8C5730DEBB095E46B1C16E45D2B2233B8AE8CA7C at xmail2007.nantucket.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Sounds like the typical shenanigans that occur when those in the
> "decider" role don't get what they want so they do nefarious things
> like this. It seems clear there is an open meeting law breach, at
> the very least, and maybe ethics as well. As for substance, lets
> assume the owner of the house wanted to fix it up. Now the Town is
> saying no? The building inspector should provide the basis
> (reasons) for his decision and appropriate remedies of the same. To
> have one - the condemnation - without any knowledge of what can be
> done to rectify is patently illegal. By identifying the problems,
> then fixing them - a re-inspection could be done and move this
> toward a renovation. Clearly by not giving the proper reasons for
> why and how it is unsafe they are trying to use a veil which masks
> their bad behavior.
>
> More questions for the whole process need to be posed and you need
> advocates to help. Have you tried PreservatiON MASS? Their circuit
> riders might be able to assist and maybe some legal counsel as
> well. MHC, National Trust office in Boston are a few other places
> to look for help.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> Mark W. Voigt, AICP, Administrator
> Nantucket Historic District Commission
> Town Annex Building
> 37 Washington Street
> Nantucket, MA 02554
> (508) 228-7231 Fax(508) 325-7572
> Celebrating 50 years of Preserving History
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> ] On Behalf Of Suzanne W Pelton
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:43 AM
> To: MassHistPres MA
> Cc: LHC at cs.umb.edu
> Subject: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
> Demolition
>
> I hope someone has a last minute effort to suggest for this
> unexpected development:
>
> A month ago the Lenox HDC denied a permit for demolition for an 1857
> house in the Historic District and we breathed a sign of relief.
> Now, all of a sudden today, chairs of the HDC and HC were advised of
> a "workshop" (off-camera, no minutes) the Select Board held last
> night before their regularly scheduled meeting, to "discuss" the
> house. The owner refuses to make repairs. An independent engineer
> reported the house was unsafe and it has been boarded up. Now the
> building inspector says the house must be demolished--probably
> within 24 hours. I've been given til a brief respite to see if there
> is anything we are missing to prevent its demolition. Lenox does not
> have a Minimum Maintenance Ordinance or a Demolition Delay Bylaw but
> it seems we're also not to be given any time to see if anyone would
> like to dismantle or move the house.
>
> When I asked how it was unsafe, I was told no one could live in it.
> Agreed but that's not the issue, I said. When I asked if it was in
> danger of falling on anyone, all I got was "it's unsafe."
>
> Any ideas you can give us will be most welcome.
>
> Suzanne Pelton
> Lenox Historical Commission
>
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us
> directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE WHOLE LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> ********************************
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:37:54 -0500
> From: "jack mac donald" <ospreydesign at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
> Demolition
> To: "'Mark Voigt'" <MVoigt at nantucket-ma.gov>, "'Suzanne W Pelton'"
> <sw.pelton at verizon.net>, "'MassHistPres MA'"
> <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Cc: LHC at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID: <000301ca7447$ba9c35a0$2fd4a0e0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
> Good Luck! Here in Bourne several historic houses were torn down
> after our
> Demo Delay bylaw was in effect. I got the same runaround from town
> hall
> such as they were "preapproved." It was a joke. Call a reporter at
> the
> very least and tell the story so that 2-300 years of built history
> in the
> landfill won't be in vain. Yeah, now I'm the local "loose cannon" who
> created headaches for town hall. So be it. The bottom line is
> preservation
> when and where possible. Lost opportunities and decisions made by
> those
> with little to no experience with preservation is a loss for our
> communities.
>
> Jack Mac Donald
> Osprey Design Inc
> Restoration and Remodeling
> 508 317-8469
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Voigt
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:37 PM
> To: 'Suzanne W Pelton'; MassHistPres MA
> Cc: LHC at cs.umb.edu
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
> Demolition
>
> Sounds like the typical shenanigans that occur when those in the
> "decider"
> role don't get what they want so they do nefarious things like
> this. It
> seems clear there is an open meeting law breach, at the very least,
> and
> maybe ethics as well. As for substance, lets assume the owner of
> the house
> wanted to fix it up. Now the Town is saying no? The building
> inspector
> should provide the basis (reasons) for his decision and appropriate
> remedies
> of the same. To have one - the condemnation - without any knowledge
> of what
> can be done to rectify is patently illegal. By identifying the
> problems,
> then fixing them - a re-inspection could be done and move this
> toward a
> renovation. Clearly by not giving the proper reasons for why and
> how it is
> unsafe they are trying to use a veil which masks their bad behavior.
>
> More questions for the whole process need to be posed and you need
> advocates
> to help. Have you tried PreservatiON MASS? Their circuit riders
> might be
> able to assist and maybe some legal counsel as well. MHC, National
> Trust
> office in Boston are a few other places to look for help.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> Mark W. Voigt, AICP, Administrator
> Nantucket Historic District Commission
> Town Annex Building
> 37 Washington Street
> Nantucket, MA 02554
> (508) 228-7231 Fax(508) 325-7572
> Celebrating 50 years of Preserving History
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Suzanne W Pelton
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:43 AM
> To: MassHistPres MA
> Cc: LHC at cs.umb.edu
> Subject: [MassHistPres] 1857 House in Historic District Slated for
> Demolition
>
> I hope someone has a last minute effort to suggest for this unexpected
> development:
>
> A month ago the Lenox HDC denied a permit for demolition for an 1857
> house
> in the Historic District and we breathed a sign of relief. Now, all
> of a
> sudden today, chairs of the HDC and HC were advised of a "workshop"
> (off-camera, no minutes) the Select Board held last night before their
> regularly scheduled meeting, to "discuss" the house. The owner
> refuses to
> make repairs. An independent engineer reported the house was unsafe
> and it
> has been boarded up. Now the building inspector says the house must be
> demolished--probably within 24 hours. I've been given til a brief
> respite to
> see if there is anything we are missing to prevent its demolition.
> Lenox
> does not have a Minimum Maintenance Ordinance or a Demolition Delay
> Bylaw
> but it seems we're also not to be given any time to see if anyone
> would like
> to dismantle or move the house.
>
> When I asked how it was unsafe, I was told no one could live in it.
> Agreed but that's not the issue, I said. When I asked if it was in
> danger of
> falling on anyone, all I got was "it's unsafe."
>
> Any ideas you can give us will be most welcome.
>
> Suzanne Pelton
> Lenox Historical Commission
>
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
> THE WHOLE
> LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> ********************************
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
> THE WHOLE
> LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> ********************************
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:01:08 -0500
> From: blever3043 at aol.com
> Subject: [MassHistPres] Design guidelines
> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID: <8CC4259B9442521-75C0-85AF at webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
> I am seeking information regarding design guidelines for a grant
> application.
> I have a lot of examples from different communities, but am seeking
> some more.
> If your community has some that have proven helpful could you please
> e-mail me off-list
> with a copy or link to them ( I don?t want to overburden other
> peoples e-mail).
> I am also interested in learning how they were produced.
> as it a volunteer effort, consultant, combination of the two?
> ow was it funded, MHC grant, CPA funds ect.?
> he time it took to complete.
> uggestions you may have for improvement.
> Any help will be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Brian Lever
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:01:09 -0500
> From: Suzanne W Pelton <sw.pelton at verizon.net>
> Subject: [MassHistPres] Picture of 1857 House in Lenox
> To: MassHistPres MA <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID: <DF9A0DE4-E78F-41EE-85D6-6CD9858637C0 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
>
>
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>>
>> 1857 House in Lenox Historic District
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
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>
>
> End of MassHistPres Digest, Vol 46, Issue 5
> *******************************************
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