[MassHistPres] What should go in minutes

Wed Oct 7 12:38:08 EDT 2009

I've dealt with various approaches to minute taking, from comprehensive blow-by-blow documentation to just the decisions with back-up audio tapes to meet legal requirements.  My preference, assuming the municipal counsel concurs, is to write a definitive list of findings (both pro & con), which support the decision/vote & show that the decision wasn't arbitrary & capricious should the decision be challenged in court.  Thus, when someone makes a motion & it is seconded, the commission members, in its discussion of the matter, offer specific findings.  This serves to summarize the issues, questions & concerns raised as a part of the general application hearing.

Good luck!

Jill Fisher, AICP 
Principal Planner 
Larson Fisher Associates, Inc. 
Historic Preservation & Planning Services 
PO Box 1394 
Woodstock, NY 12498 
845-679-5054 
jillfisher47 at hotmail.com 

www.larsonfisher.com 

> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:33:18 -0400
> From: TuckerJ at amherstma.gov
> To: jfeist at charter.net; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] What should go in minutes
> 
> I respectfully disagree, unless you have problems getting anyone to do
> minutes, in which case the more spare, the better, until your clerical
> fortunes improve.
> 
> But minutes provide more than a record of your commission's formal
> actions on specific issues for public consumption. They also serve--if
> well done--as a record of the evolution of your commission's thinking on
> matters of long-term, enduring community policy, regarding issues that
> will come up again and again over the years. For new members, for
> reference at town meetings, or whatever, a good record of why a
> commission decided to do what it did can be invaluable.
> 
> We should not refrain from openly recording the why of our activities
> just because some segments of the populace will always be foolishly
> suspicious, or will always see nefariousness where it does not exist.
> There are people for whom finding some hidden evil at which to wave
> their collection of torches and pitchforks is necessary to sustaining
> their worldview and personal identity. We can't cure dumb, but neither
> should we contort our public process to try to avoid experiencing it.
> It's simply a fact that some people have less of a grasp on reality than
> others, so public stupidity will always be an unavoidable--though
> hopefully minor--part of public process. Its public expression provides
> an opportunity to hone our ability to describe reality and genuine
> intentions calmly, patiently, and rationally, which can only enhance the
> commission's credibility. Snarling, off-the-rails public accusations
> about conspiracies reveal to the community exactly how much credence
> they should give these folks. It's unpleasant, but they're actually
> doing you a favor--making your commission look calm, fair, and
> trustworthy by contrast. 
> 
> 
> Jonathan Tucker
> Planning Director
> Amherst Planning Department
> 4 Boltwood Avenue, Town Hall
> Amherst, MA 01002
> (413) 259-3040
> tuckerj at amherstma.gov 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Feist
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 9:07 AM
> To: MHC MHC listserve
> Subject: [MassHistPres] What should go in minutes
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Here's an follow-up to my previous thread about minutes being public 
> documents.
> 
> Perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised to be greeted at last nights 
> HC meeting by a furious group of citizens. One of them had decided to 
> scour all of our minutes from the past three years, in hopes of 
> finding whether we had discussed an issue of concern to her (out of 
> our real jurisdiction). She picked up on some mentions regarding an 
> unrelated issue that we did talk about, took various quotations from 
> the minutes out of context, and decided that a conspiracy was afoot.
> 
> As an example, there was a mention in the minutes that Chris Skelly, 
> on a visit a few months ago, suggested that we try to see whether we 
> can get the schools to include more curriculum related to Harvard's 
> history. This was seen by her as an attempt to brainwash the town's 
> children so that we could turn them against their parents, as part of 
> out master scheme to implement some nefarious agenda.
> 
> Staggering!
> 
> So, she got a mob together. There was a newspaper reporter and even a 
> few nuns. The topic she told the crowd we were going to discuss wasn't 
> actually on the agenda. In an attempt to diffuse the mob, I gave them 
> 15 minutes to voice their concerns, and then most of them left, though 
> the ringleader stuck around, and I eventually let her bring up the 
> issue that concerned her, after all our planned business was done. 
> Surprisingly, none of my fellow commissioners seemed to want to join 
> her in her crusade....
> 
> Despite the pitchforks and torches, I found it to be a terrific 
> learning experience. Perhaps, I should have simply bored them with the 
> two hours of real business we needed to get through, and then invited 
> anyone still standing to talk at 10:00 PM, but I felt the need to 
> release the tension in the room.
> 
> Anyhow, I've arrived at the following list of what I believe should go 
> into minutes, rather than the detailed, helpful, and pleasantly 
> readable documents that they had been previously. I would welcome your 
> feedback.
> 
> 1. Record the results of votes taken, including any language arrived 
> at by the group for decisions, letters, etc.
> 2. Record what people agree to do for the next meeting.
> 3. That's it.
> 
> Assume that anything else in there is designed to be taken out of 
> context and turned against you.
> 
> Cynical? Paranoid? No, realistic.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --Jonathan
> 
> ================================
> Jonathan Feist, Chair
> Harvard Historical Commission
> jfeist at charter.net * 978-772-4864
> Blog: Delights and Processes
> http://blogs.townonline.com/delight/
> 
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