[MassHistPres] Calculations for energy saved by replacement windows
Garrett Laws
copperandslate at gmail.com
Mon Sep 28 15:15:47 EDT 2009
BINGO!
The answer is staring us all right in the face! Provide the guaranteee
documentation that is fill in the blank for an agreement between the window
manufacturer and the homeowner!
If there is a state / nation wide document that manufacturers have to follow
through with the claims they make, then at least homeowners will have
something to start a conversation about (same as worker compensation), this
becomes another piece of legitimizing people who back up claims and putting
false statements to bed.
Does this exist yet? Can Chris Skelly comment on this please?
Cheers,
Garrett
Garrett Laws, Manager
The Copper & Slate Company
Fine Roofing and Exterior Finish Carpentry
238A Calvary Street
Waltham, MA 02453
Ph: (781) 893-1916
Fax: (781) 893-2041
Copperandslate at Gmail.com or
GLaws at hbuilders.net
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM, <slater at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
> Home Depot often comes in pretty low with basic vinyl replacement windows
> -- and I've seen no-name contractor estimates in the $150 per window range.
> I'm not sure if they were fake quotes to justify replacement or what, but
> that's what we're faced with. $300 is almost high-end for vinyl.
>
> I think that if we're going to convince the public that replacement is not
> the right thing to do, we're going to have to show them that the cost
> savings is just not going to happen. The homeowners are being sold purely on
> saving a lot of money in heating bills. I always ask "will you guarantee
> those numbers to the homeowner", and of course, they never do.
>
> In the formula I found, the infiltration number is the key -- if a
> replacement window is compared to an original window and the infiltration is
> the same, then 30 replacement windows at $300 apiece equals a 61 year
> payback. I'm still not sure why the infiltration number gets added to the
> U-Factor, and how they arrived at 1.0 for an "old" window and 0.14 for an
> "new" window.
>
> Subsequently, if expensive vinyl windows are the only way to get those
> other ratings, then we can attack from another angle -- if it takes $600 to
> get a window that has a 0.34 U-factor with an infiltration rate of 0.14,
> then that puts the payback at 15 years even using the 1.0 and 0.14
> infiltration rates. Problem is, if they can achieve the best ratings at $150
> per window (maybe by self-installing) then the payback rate drops to 4
> years.
>
> If we can also show that the life span of a vinyl replacement window is
> somewhere around 20-25 years, then we can also show people that the odds of
> them seeing the payback is relatively small -- because after 20 or 25 years
> the vinyl windows will need to be replaced again. The only payback is in
> years 21-25, then the cycle starts all over again. What are the odds that
> someone will own their home only for between 21 and 25 years? It's more
> likely that they will own it some other number, so they will either be
> paying for the first or second set of replacements.
>
> I think people will respond to us showing them actual numbers rather than
> pointing to studies with a lot of scientific jargon in them.
>
> Ralph Slate
> Springfield, MA
>
> <-----Original Message----->You were wondering about the payback
> calculation,
> >and why your numbers seemed to suggest such an early break-even point. The
> only
> >question I would raise with your argument is here:
> >
> >>> I assumed that a vinyl replacement window costs $300 installed.
> >
> >I've heard one (radio) advertisement in the Boston media market at that
> price
> >point. One. I don't know how this bottom-of-the-market window meets your
> >standard presumtions for efficiency. I can't say what installers are
> getting in
> >different parts of the state, but I thought (anecdotally--trying to get
> >comparative figures from these guys reminds me of the deceptive scams some
> >automobile places were running 20 years ago) the going rate around here
> was 2 or
> >3 times that.
> >
> >
> >--
> >A. Michael Ruderman
> >amruderman at gmail.com
> >(781) 929-7847
>
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