[MassHistPres] MassHistPres Digest, Vol 54, Issue 7

Tue Aug 3 18:13:12 EDT 2010

Dennis,

Preservation Restrictions (PR) executed by the MHC sometimes have stipulations regarding the treatment of archaeological resources associated with the historic property, subject to the terms of the PR. If the building on a property is destroyed by fire, the potentially significant archaeological resources should be protected even if the building no longer exists. I can see how new construction at such a property would pose an eminent threat to those resources if they are not evaluated by a qualified archaeologist. These issues should be considered.

Greg Dubell
Uxbridge, MA

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Subject: MassHistPres Digest, Vol 54, Issue 7

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Today's Topics:

   1. house with preservation restriction destroyed by fire
      (Dennis De Witt)
   2. Re: house with preservation restriction destroyed by fire
      (Electa Tritsch)
   3. Re: house with preservation restriction destroyed by      fire
      (Dennis De Witt)
   4. Re: house with preservation restriction destroyed by fire
      (james hadley)
   5. Re: house with preservation restriction destroyed by      fire
      (Tristram Metcalfe 3)
   6. Re: house with preservation restriction destroyed by      fire
      (Mory Bahar)
   7. Re: house with preservation restriction destroyed by      fire
      (Dennis De Witt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:50 -0400
From: Dennis De Witt <djd184 at verizon.net>
Subject: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction destroyed
        by fire
To: MHC MHC listserve <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <5F5CAFBB-CA95-4B71-A30B-D4A7C827D9D5 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a preservation restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by any other non-deliberate cause)?

What happened after the fire re the restriction?

Dennis De Witt

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 15:51:06 -0400
From: Electa Tritsch <e.tritsch at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
        destroyed by fire
To: Dennis De Witt <djd184 at verizon.net>,        MHC MHC listserve
        <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <201008032003.o73K38J5029806 at mx1.cs.umb.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Hmm...mow there's an interesting situation. On the one hand, how can
you enforce a PR on something that is no longer there? Sounds absurd
at first glance but - what about the footprint/cellar? Seems to me
the answer has to depend on the specific language of the original document.
Electa Tritsch
Oakfield Research

At 02:28 PM 8/3/2010, Dennis De Witt wrote:
>Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a
>preservation restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by any
>other non-deliberate cause)?
>
>What happened after the fire re the restriction?
>
>Dennis De Witt
>******************************
>For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
>Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly.  PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
>THE WHOLE LIST.
>MassHistPres mailing list
>MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>********************************

Electa Kane Tritsch, Director
Oakfield Research
233 Heaths Bridge Rd.
Concord, MA 01742
978-371-2128
www.oakfieldresearch.com
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:16:33 -0400
From: Dennis De Witt <djd184 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
        destroyed by    fire
To: MHC MHC listserve <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <0B29BBC5-D819-4095-B9E9-42338273B7AF at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It is a single family lot at the end of a suburban side street where the houses are ca. 1920.  The remains of the previously much-modified ca. 1830s house have been razed.  Nothing remains.  The site is to be redeveloped.  Apparently the proposal is that there be design guidelines in the spirit of  . . . what?  . .  and why?

Dennis

On Aug 3, 2010, at 3:51 PM, Electa Tritsch wrote:

> Hmm...mow there's an interesting situation. On the one hand, how can you enforce a PR on something that is no longer there? Sounds absurd at first glance but - what about the footprint/cellar? Seems to me the answer has to depend on the specific language of the original document.
> Electa Tritsch
> Oakfield Research
>
> At 02:28 PM 8/3/2010, Dennis De Witt wrote:
>> Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a preservation restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by any other non-deliberate cause)?
>>
>> What happened after the fire re the restriction?
>>
>> Dennis De Witt
>> ******************************
>> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly.  PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE WHOLE LIST.
>> MassHistPres mailing list
>> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>> ********************************
> Electa Kane Tritsch, Director
> Oakfield Research
> 233 Heaths Bridge Rd.
> Concord, MA 01742
> 978-371-2128
> www.oakfieldresearch.com

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:31:27 -0400
From: james hadley <jameswhadley at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
        destroyed by fire
To: <djd184 at verizon.net>, <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <SNT105-W4254BEC858D54802E28F6BD5AE0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dick Cavett's house burned to the ground in Montauk, NY. It was part of a National Register Historic District consisting of 7 houses designed by McKim, Mead and White in the 1880's, (a clubhouse building that was part of the group burned some years ago.) It had the usual NRHD constraints on modifications, but after it burned there were no restrictions on a replacement. The Cavetts were determined to duplicate it (and we managed to do so for them.) The decision was not universally supported however. Many thought a replica to be inauthentic (and indeed it was, because it wasn't the original, and contemporary materials and methods were used in the framing, hidden from view.)
Nevertheless I am constantly rewarded by the memory of the unbridled happiness of Ms.Cavett after moving back into that house, and Mr. Cavett remains very much at peace and at home there today. The project received a NY State preservation award.
Equally important, the values of the other houses in the district increased substantially after the reconstruction, and awareness of the district helped generate new ownership and subsequent preservation work on the two houses in the district that were in the worst condition. I do not believe that this would have happened had the replacement been a contemporary house.
James Hadley
Orleans, MA

> From: djd184 at verizon.net
> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:50 -0400
> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Subject: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction destroyed by fire
>
> Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a preservation restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by any other non-deliberate cause)?
>
> What happened after the fire re the restriction?
>
> Dennis De Witt
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE WHOLE LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> ********************************

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:41:47 -0400
From: Tristram Metcalfe 3 <twm3 at rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
        destroyed by    fire
To: james hadley <jameswhadley at hotmail.com>
Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
Message-ID: <45240286-0651-474F-AF2C-D4F352F4CDBB at rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Why wouldn't the LHD restriction still apply just the same under the
Secretary of the Interior's Standards for the Treatment of Historic
Properties guidelines for; "Reconstruction" in cases of total loss as
it would in lesser loss cases under Preservation, Rehabilitating, &
Restoring Historic Buildings?
Tris Metcalfe
Northampton Ma

On Aug 3, 2010, at 4:31 PM, james hadley wrote:

> Dick Cavett's house burned to the ground in Montauk, NY. It was
> part of a National Register Historic District consisting of 7
> houses designed by McKim, Mead and White in the 1880's, (a
> clubhouse building that was part of the group burned some years
> ago.) It had the usual NRHD constraints on modifications, but after
> it burned there were no restrictions on a replacement. The Cavetts
> were determined to duplicate it (and we managed to do so for them.)
> The decision was not universally supported however. Many thought a
> replica to be inauthentic (and indeed it was, because it wasn't the
> original, and contemporary materials and methods were used in the
> framing, hidden from view.)
> Nevertheless I am constantly rewarded by the memory of the
> unbridled happiness of Ms.Cavett after moving back into that house,
> and Mr. Cavett remains very much at peace and at home there today.
> The project received a NY State preservation award.
> Equally important, the values of the other houses in the district
> increased substantially after the reconstruction, and awareness of
> the district helped generate new ownership and subsequent
> preservation work on the two houses in the district that were in
> the worst condition. I do not believe that this would have happened
> had the replacement been a contemporary house.
> James Hadley
> Orleans, MA
>
> > From: djd184 at verizon.net
> > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:50 -0400
> > To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> > Subject: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
> destroyed by fire
> >
> > Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a
> preservation restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by
> any other non-deliberate cause)?
> >
> > What happened after the fire re the restriction?
> >
> > Dennis De Witt
> > ******************************
> > For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
> THE WHOLE LIST.
> > MassHistPres mailing list
> > MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> > http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> > ********************************
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly.  PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
> THE WHOLE LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> ********************************

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:47:13 -0400
From: "Mory Bahar" <mbahar at architecturaltrust.org>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
        destroyed by    fire
To: "Dennis De Witt" <djd184 at verizon.net>,      "MHC MHC listserve"
        <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <2F0E8CDC9E1E974883DDBBEEC70C134223DB13 at sbs.tae.local>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Dennis,

In case of all our preservation restrictions, the restriction runs with
the deed and the land and thus remains in force even after the
destruction of the building. Mory

Mory Bahar
Independent Authorized Representative
Trust for Architectural Easements
Office: 978-352-5615
mbahar at architecturaltrust.org
www.architecturaltrust.org

-----Original Message-----
From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
[mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis De Witt
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:29 PM
To: MHC MHC listserve
Subject: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction destroyed by
fire

Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a preservation
restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by any other
non-deliberate cause)?

What happened after the fire re the restriction?

Dennis De Witt
******************************
For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly.  PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE
WHOLE LIST.
MassHistPres mailing list
MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
********************************

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 17:53:49 -0400
From: Dennis De Witt <djd184 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction
        destroyed by    fire
To: MHC MHC listserve <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <C73B701B-4EA2-4341-8DA7-C55124248845 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Did the refs below to an "National Register Historic District" and "the usual NRHD constraints" mean an LHD?

 The example I have cited is NOT in an LHD nor an NRD.  It just has a pre-existing easement on it.

Dennis

On Aug 3, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Tristram Metcalfe 3 wrote:

> Why wouldn't the LHD restriction still apply just the same under the Secretary of the Interior's Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties guidelines for; "Reconstruction" in cases of total loss as it would in lesser loss cases under Preservation, Rehabilitating, & Restoring Historic Buildings?
> Tris Metcalfe
> Northampton Ma
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 4:31 PM, james hadley wrote:
>
>> Dick Cavett's house burned to the ground in Montauk, NY. It was part of a National Register Historic District consisting of 7 houses designed by McKim, Mead and White in the 1880's, (a clubhouse building that was part of the group burned some years ago.) It had the usual NRHD constraints on modifications, but after it burned there were no restrictions on a replacement. The Cavetts were determined to duplicate it (and we managed to do so for them.) The decision was not universally supported however. Many thought a replica to be inauthentic (and indeed it was, because it wasn't the original, and contemporary materials and methods were used in the framing, hidden from view.)
>> Nevertheless I am constantly rewarded by the memory of the unbridled happiness of Ms.Cavett after moving back into that house, and Mr. Cavett remains very much at peace and at home there today. The project received a NY State preservation award.
>> Equally important, the values of the other houses in the district increased substantially after the reconstruction, and awareness of the district helped generate new ownership and subsequent preservation work on the two houses in the district that were in the worst condition. I do not believe that this would have happened had the replacement been a contemporary house.
>> James Hadley
>> Orleans, MA
>>
>> > From: djd184 at verizon.net
>> > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:50 -0400
>> > To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> > Subject: [MassHistPres] house with preservation restriction destroyed by fire
>> >
>> > Can anyone cite an example of non-LHD building that had a preservation restriction on it that was destroyed by fire (or by any other non-deliberate cause)?
>> >
>> > What happened after the fire re the restriction?
>> >
>> > Dennis De Witt
>> > ******************************
>> > For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE WHOLE LIST.
>> > MassHistPres mailing list
>> > MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>> > http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>> > ********************************
>> ******************************
>> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly.  PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE WHOLE LIST.
>> MassHistPres mailing list
>> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>> ********************************
>

------------------------------

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End of MassHistPres Digest, Vol 54, Issue 7
*******************************************