[MassHistPres] demolition request

Tue Jan 25 18:09:09 EST 2011

Nancy,

I can recall offhand two requests to demolish a building & replace, in the 
first case, an early 19th c. house with "something better but 
architecturally appropriate" and in the second case, a late 19th c. barn 
with an "identical" structure (converted to residence) on a somewhat 
different location on the lot.

Hardship was not claimed, but in both case we said absolutely no.

Hardship would require a showing that replacement with a duplicate structure 
would cost less than repairing the extant building, and financial data (tax 
returns, balance sheet) to prove they couldn't afford the differential (if 
any).  We don't have CPA in Arlington, but do you have it?  Here, we would 
offer a low-cost preservation loan through Arlington Preservation Fund 
(1.75% interest, up to 10 year amortization).

I can't imagine that there would not be a huge public outcry to destroying 
such a significant structure in your town.

John Worden
Arlington HDC

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu>
To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:00 PM
Subject: MassHistPres Digest, Vol 59, Issue 21

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: owner request to demolish property based on condition
>      (Garrett Laws)
>   2. Re: owner request to demolish property based on condition
>      (Jane  Guy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:47:22 -0500
> From: Garrett Laws <copperandslate at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] owner request to demolish property based
> on condition
> Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=HsF5hrc4KYQaUj7mn+11qhqyT5KGbXjMgOFWm at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Preservation is *perceived *to be more costly for someone retaining the 
> same
> footprint of structure...
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if there is a whole lot going on it the background
> here!
>
> Cheers,
> Garrett
>
> The Copper & Slate Company, Inc.
> Fine Roofing and Exterior Finish Carpentry
> 238B Calvary Street, Waltham, MA 02453
> (781) 893-1916
>
> What we do:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/copperandslate
>
> Where we've worked over the years:
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=100752233045636062690.00049065ef8543e1ef9c3&z=15
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Valerie Norton 
> <preserve at nantucket.net>wrote:
>
>>  I do not think that any structure with this historic significance should
>> be allowed to be torn down.
>> In our business we find that if it is still standing it can be preserved.
>>  Even with huge holes in the roof and listing to one side.
>> I would appreciate it if you took some photos when you have your site
>> meeting.  If the building is this age it most likely a post and beam 
>> which
>> can be repaired without a doubt.
>> I will say that they are probably looking to demo because as we all know
>> preservation can be more costly than new construction.
>> I say hold your ground and do not allow demolition.
>> Valerie Norton
>>
>> Norton Preservation Trust
>> PO Box 476
>> Nantucket, MA 02554
>> 508 228 9987
>> 508 228 7882 (FAX)
>> preserve at nantucket.net
>>
>>
>> Norton Preservation Trust
>> Building Artisans and Architectural Designers of Historic Homes
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/25/11 9:13 AM, "Paul Bourdon" <Paul.Bourdon at GTC-BIO.COM> wrote:
>>
>> > WOW! I guess I don't understand how they have the money to tear this
>> > nationally significant building down and rebuild a brand new house??? 
>> > So
>> > they would be willing to replicate a chamfered First Period timber 
>> > frame?
>>  I
>> > would make sure you have someone who can make an informed assessment of
>> the
>> > actual structural condition of the building. A lot of old houses look a
>> lot
>> > worse than they are and replacing sills is not that big a deal. Why 
>> > don't
>> > they just sell the property? How do people like this become owners of
>> these
>> > buildings?
>> >
>> > Paul Bourdon
>> > Southborough
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1/24/11 10:20 PM, "Nancy Dole" <ndole at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi everyone.
>> >>
>> >> We have had an owner application for a certificate of hardship to 
>> >> allow
>> >> them t o demolish a house they own in the district. I will just copy
>> >> here the minutes from the meeting this evening, and ask for comments.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Applicant came to discuss the situation with the family homestead, she
>> >> and her brother are the current owners, as of 1998. They want to
>> >> demolish the house and build a new house in the same location, and 
>> >> would
>> >> begin that process by requesting a certificate of hardship, based on 
>> >> the
>> >> age and condition of the existing structure. The original house is a
>> >> cape circa 1630, built by Josiah Standish, one of the original 
>> >> settlers
>> >> of West Tisbury, and the son of Miles Standish, a well known figure in
>> >> American history. The additions to the original structure were built 
>> >> in
>> >> 1865 by applicant's great great grandfather. The house has great
>> >> significance in the town?s history, and is a town and island landmark.
>> >> But it is in severe disrepair, and the current owners are not able to 
>> >> do
>> >> the work needed to preserve it. Demolishing it and building a new home
>> >> would be their preferred solution.
>> >>
>> >> It is not clear if a hardship that is unique to the property and is 
>> >> not
>> >> applicable to the rest of the district, which is required by our 
>> >> bylaw,
>> >> could be that it is older than any other structure in the district and
>> >> is in such disrepair that it is not worth fixing.
>> >>
>> >> One of our members suggested we do some research to see how other
>> >> districts have handled the issue of a house that is of great historic
>> >> value to a district, but is beyond repair and/or too costly for the
>> >> owners to repair. We decided to contact the Mass Historic Commission
>> >> Mail Server List, and raise the issue.
>> >>
>> >> There was discussion by the members as to whether the original 1630 
>> >> cape
>> >> was more historic than the 1875 additions, which were add-ons, and if
>> >> those add-ons could be demolished and not replaced, while the original
>> >> cape could also be demolished, but be replaced by a replica.
>> >>
>> >> The decision was made to schedule a site visit for Saturday the 29th 
>> >> at
>> >> 10:30 am. The members of the Historic Commission as well as any other
>> >> interested parties are welcome to attend.
>> >>
>> >> Another meeting will be scheduled for February 7th.
>> >>
>> >> So I am doing as requested, and writing to ask if any of the other
>> >> districts have had applications like this, and how they were resolved.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> Nancy Dole
>> >> West Tisbury Historic District Commission
>> >>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:50:04 -0500
> From: "Jane  Guy" <JGuy at Salem.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] owner request to demolish property based
> on condition
> To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <D39A7AB07C46FE45B08F8F1C5B7F8E83045B7BF9 at salemexch01.Salem.local>
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>
> We have a unique way of looking at Hardship...sort of a catch 22 for the
> owners...
>
> Financial - if the claim is they cannot afford to do something
> appropriately, we suggest they go through the city's Housing
> Rehabilitation Loan Program which is for households of low to moderate
> income.... when they say they don't income-qualify, we can determine
> that there is no financial hardship LOL!
>
> Disrepair - Most any property can be restored with enough funding and
> unless it is a public safety hazard our building inspector will not
> order its demolition (which he could do without HisCom permission).  So
> if the Building Inspector does not feel it is bad enough, neither does
> the Commission.
>
> We get very few demo requests within the district, but the typical
> response is DENIED.  We actually will have one coming up in the next
> month or so, so we will see.
>
> I fail to see how rebuilding a 1630 house could be done as an exact
> replica - building codes would likely require changes.
>
>
> Jane A. Guy
> Assistant Community Development Director
> City of Salem
> Department of Planning & Community Development
> 120 Washington St., 3rd Floor
> Salem, MA  01970
> 978-619-5685
> (F) 978-740-0404
> jguy at salem.com
> www.salem.com
>
>
>
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