[MassHistPres] Clarification about alternate members of Historical Commissions (Ipswich Historical Commission)

Wed May 13 19:40:21 EDT 2015

Thanks Tad!

In Lenox, our Historic District Commission struggles to get a quorum and
many times rely on our only alternate.

I do appreciate the interpretation that the intent is to strive to have as
many commissioners as possible present.  It gives applicants a more diverse
commission in attendance.  With a membership of 5, hearings with just a
quorum (3) require all 3 to approve which I feel puts the applicant at a
disadvantage.

Jim

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Tad Heuer <tadheuer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jim -
>
> Good observation - I should clarify that the "as close as possible" notion
> reflects (at least in Wellesley) a purely practical limitation, not a legal
> one, since we have only two alternate members.
>
> So if there were three principal members absent from a meeting (leaving
> four principal members present), even designating all (two) available
> alternates to sit would only get us up to six sitting members for that
> meeting - that's as close as we could get to seven.  But ideally, we would
> designate three alternate members in that situation so as to get us up to
> seven.
>
> Best,
> Tad
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Jim Biancolo <lenoxprojects at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I assume it is still acceptable to just have a quorum?
>>
>> To me a "shall" that means "as close as possible" is not a "shall" at
>> all.  It's a goal.
>>
>> But I am not a lawyer.  My guess is that most commissions use the amended
>> 8D to try to obtain a quorum not to maximize attendance.  If the
>> requirement is to maximize attendance then I suggest someone in authority
>> communicate this to all HC's.
>>
>> Jim Biancolo
>> Lenox Historical Commission Volunteer
>>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Tad Heuer <tadheuer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agree entirely with Gretchen's observation that the "filling of a
>>>> vacancy" on the Board (or the appointment of an individual as an "alternate
>>>> member") must still be made by the appointing authority (Town Manager,
>>>> Selectmen, etc.), while the designation of a duly-appointed alternate to
>>>> participate in the absence of a principal member is made by the Chair on a
>>>> meeting-by-meeting basis
>>>
>>>
>>> One minor additional observation is that we have been advised by our
>>>> town counsel in Wellesley that the word "shall" in the second sentence of
>>>> the 8D amendment is to be interpreted as mandating that if the number of
>>>> principal members present falls below the full complement, the Chair is
>>>> required to designate sufficient alternate(s) to participate as principal
>>>> members for that meeting, so as to reach (or get as close as possible to)
>>>> the number of seats that comprises a full complement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In other words, the interpretation we have been given is that the 8D
>>>> amendment is not simply to enable a Board to obtain a quorum, but is
>>>> drafted to require that the Board have as full a complement available to
>>>> discuss/vote as is possible at a given meeting.  To illustrate, if on a
>>>> 7-member board four principal members are absent at a meeting but four
>>>> alternates are available, we have been advised that the Chair should
>>>> designate all four alternates to participate, not just the one necessary to
>>>> assure a quorum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You own town counsel may also be able to advise on this as well, of
>>>> course.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tad Heuer
>>> Chair, Wellesley Historical Commission
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 3
>>>> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 15:40:28 -0400
>>>> From: "Gretchen Schuler" <ggschuler at verizon.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Clarification about alternate members of
>>>>         Historical      Commissions
>>>> To: "'Ipswich Historical Commission'" <historicipswich at gmail.com>,
>>>>         <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>, "'John Fiske'" <jfiske39 at gmail.com>
>>>> Message-ID: <009a01d08ceb$803b2f70$80b18e50$@verizon.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> I don?t believe that you can fill a vacancy ? that can only be done by
>>>> Town Manager/ Board of Selectmen, but the Chair of the Historical
>>>> Commission can ask an alternate to vote in the interim as long as you do
>>>> not exceed the 5 or 7 member commission that you  adopted in your
>>>> Historical Commission bylaw.  Generally it is a meeting by meeting decision
>>>> of the Chair to select an alternate to vote in lieu of someone who is
>>>> absent or a slot that is vacant as the case may be.
>>>>
>>>> Gretchen Schuler
>>>>
>>>> Wayland HDC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu [mailto:
>>>> masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Ipswich Historical
>>>> Commission
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 1:35 PM
>>>> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu; John Fiske
>>>> Subject: [MassHistPres] Clarification about alternate members of
>>>> Historical Commissions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We need clarification of the new law for alternate members on
>>>> Historical Commissions.
>>>>
>>>> "Section 8D of chapter 40 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2012
>>>> Official Edition, is hereby amended by inserting after the tenth sentence
>>>> the following sentences:- Alternate members may be appointed in like manner
>>>> as provided for in this section not exceeding in number the principal
>>>> members.  In the case of the absence or inability to act on the part of a
>>>> principal member, the place of such member shall be taken by an alternate
>>>> member designated by the chairman."
>>>>
>>>> We have a vacancy on our Commission. Does the change mean the Chair
>>>> should appoint an alternate to fill the vacancy until a new person is
>>>> appointed by our Town Manager, or does it mean that the Chair can only
>>>> appoint an alternate as a voting member in the absence of a quorum?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gordon Harris, Ipswich Historical Commission
>>>>
>>>> Stories from Ipswich <http://ipswich.wordpress.com>
>>>> Historical Commission site <http://historicipswich.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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