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Thu Nov 19 13:17:21 EST 2015
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Sent : 2/13/2017 12:00:02 PM
To : masshistpres at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu
Cc :=20
Subject : RE: MassHistPres Digest, Vol 132, Issue 15
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Today's Topics:
1=2E windows (Nancy Dole)
2=2E Re: windows (Christopher Bader)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 14:41:11 -0500
What does "like kind" mean? We have been getting applications for=20
certificate of non applicability for "maintenance, repair or replacement=20
using same design materials, color" in which the applicant (contractor)=20
notes that he plans to "remove existing windows and replace with like=20
kind, color and grill pattern" =2E We recently learned that what he means=20=
is he wants to replace existng wooden windows with insulated aluminum=20
clad window inserts, specifically "Marvin Aluminum Clad Ultimate Insert=20
Double Hung" =2E
I assumed by the nature of the application that "like kind" meant the=20
same material, ie replace wood with wood=2E Another member felt that "like=20=
kind" could mean replace wooden window with true divided lites, with=20
insulated aluminum clad wooden windows with mullions attached to glass,=20
because aluminum clad were the same color, were the same size diameter=20
and had a six over six grill pattern applied to glass that was like the=20
old six over six original window=2E
Any one out there that can define "like kind"=2E And do any districts have=20=
a list of windows that they approve?
Thanks,
Nancy Dole, West Tisbury Historic District Commission
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:37:36 -0500
Nancy,
"Like kind" of course means exactly what it appears to mean=2E Wood with
wood, etc=2E
In Medford, we have often permitted an "indistinguishable in appearance"
standard instead=2E You should ask the contractor to bring in a physical
sample (not a photo) of what he intends to install=2E Good contractors will=
do this=2E
Chris Bader
Chair, Medford Historic District Commission
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Nancy Dole <ndole at verizon=2Enet> wrote:
> What does "like kind" mean? We have been getting applications for
> certificate of non applicability for "maintenance, repair or replacement
> using same design materials, color" in which the applicant (contractor)
> notes that he plans to "remove existing windows and replace with like kind,=
> color and grill pattern" =2E We recently learned that what he means=20is =
he
> wants to replace existng wooden windows with insulated aluminum clad window=
> inserts, specifically "Marvin Aluminum Clad Ultimate Insert Double Hung" =2E=
>
> I assumed by the nature of the application that "like kind" meant the same=
> material, ie replace wood with wood=2E Another member felt that "like kind"=
> could mean replace wooden window with true divided lites, with insulated
> aluminum clad wooden windows with mullions attached to glass, because
> aluminum clad were the same color, were the same size diameter and had a
> six over six grill pattern applied to glass that was like the old six over=
> six original window=2E
>
> Any one out there that can define "like kind"=2E And do any districts have=
a
> list of windows that they approve?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nancy Dole, West Tisbury Historic District Commission
>
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher=2ESkelly at state=2Ema=2Eus directly=2E PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO=
THE
> WHOLE LIST=2E
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu
> http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eumb=2Eedu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres=20
> ********************************
>
>
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<html><head></head><body><p>
Nancy,</p><p>Contractors typically want to replace windows because it's easi=
er, and they can buy them for x dollars & sell them to the homeowner for=
2x dollars=2E When someone wants to replace windows, we first ask if =
the owner has looked into repairing rather than replacing - which often turn=
s out to be no more (sometimes less) expensive, and you get a better p=
roduct because old wood is so much better than what they have now=2E A=
fter getting caught once (promised wood windows, got wood clad with aluminum=
), we are very careful to say no clad, no composite, no vinyl=2E The o=
nly exceptions are basement windows exposed to dirt and moisture=2E</p><p>Go=
od wood windows in historic designs are available - one of my sons, who live=
s in an 1819 house, just got some=2E</p><p>John Worden</p><p>Arlington Histo=
ric District Commissions<br><br><br><br>------- Original Message -------<br>=
<strong>From :</strong> masshistpres-request at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu[mailto:masshi=
stpres-request at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu]<br><strong>Sent :</strong> 2/13/2017 12:00=
:02 PM<br><strong>To :</strong> masshistpres at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu<br><strong>=
Cc :</strong> <br><strong>Subject :</strong> RE: MassHistPres Digest, V=
ol 132, Issue 15<br><br> Send MassHistPres mailing list submissions to<br>=09=
masshistpres at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu<br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World=
Wide Web, visit<br>=09 <a href=3D"http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eumb=2Eedu/mailman/l=
istinfo/masshistpres" target=3D"_new">http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eumb=2Eedu/mailma=
n/listinfo/masshistpres</a> <br>or, via email, send a message with subject o=
r body 'help' to<br>=09masshistpres-request at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu<br><br>You can re=
ach the person managing the list at<br>=09masshistpres-owner at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu<=
br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<b=
r>than "Re: Contents of MassHistPres digest=2E=2E=2E"<br><br><br>Today's Top=
ics:<br><br> 1=2E windows (Nancy Dole)<br> 2=2E Re: windows (Christopher=
Bader)<br><br><br>---------------------------------------------------------=
-------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 14:41:11 -0500<br>=
<br></p><hr><br>What does "like kind" mean? We have been getting application=
s for <br>certificate of non applicability for "maintenance, repair or repla=
cement <br>using same design materials, color" in which the applicant (contr=
actor) <br>notes that he plans to "remove existing windows and replace with =
like <br>kind, color and grill pattern" =2E We recently learned that what h=
e means <br>is he wants to replace existng wooden windows with insulated alu=
minum <br>clad window inserts, specifically "Marvin Aluminum Clad Ultimate I=
nsert <br>Double Hung" =2E<br><br>I assumed by the nature of the application=
that "like kind" meant the <br>same material, ie replace wood with wood=2E =
Another member felt that "like <br>kind" could mean replace wooden window wi=
th true divided lites, with <br>insulated aluminum clad wooden windows with =
mullions attached to glass, <br>because aluminum clad were the same color, w=
ere the same size diameter <br>and had a six over six grill pattern applied =
to glass that was like the <br>old six over six original window=2E<br><br>An=
y one out there that can define "like kind"=2E And do any districts have <br=
>a list of windows that they approve?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Nancy Dole, West=
Tisbury Historic District Commission<br><br>-------------- next part ------=
--------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed=2E=2E=2E<br>URL: < <a href=3D=
"http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eumb=2Eedu/mailman/private/masshistpres/attachments/20=
170211/635d555b/attachment=2Ehtml>" target=3D"_new">http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eum=
b=2Eedu/mailman/private/masshistpres/attachments/20170211/635d555b/attachmen=
t=2Ehtml></a> <br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br=
>Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:37:36 -0500<br><br><hr><br>Nancy,<br><br>"Like ki=
nd" of course means exactly what it appears to mean=2E Wood with<br>wood, e=
tc=2E<br><br>In Medford, we have often permitted an "indistinguishable in ap=
pearance"<br>standard instead=2E You should ask the contractor to bring in =
a physical<br>sample (not a photo) of what he intends to install=2E =20Good =
contractors will<br>do this=2E<br><br>Chris Bader<br>Chair, Medford Historic=
District Commission<br><br><br>On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Nancy Dole =
<ndole at verizon=2Enet> wrote:<br><br>> What does "like kind" mean? W=
e have been getting applications for<br>> certificate of non applicabilit=
y for "maintenance, repair or replacement<br>> using same design material=
s, color" in which the applicant (contractor)<br>> notes that he plans to=
"remove existing windows and replace with like kind,<br>> color and gril=
l pattern" =2E We recently learned that what he means is he<br>> wants t=
o replace existng wooden windows with insulated aluminum clad window<br>>=
inserts, specifically "Marvin Aluminum Clad Ultimate Insert Double Hung" =2E=
<br>><br>> I assumed by the nature of the application that "like kind"=
meant the same<br>> material, ie replace wood with wood=2E Another membe=
r felt that "like kind"<br>> could mean replace wooden window with true d=
ivided lites, with insulated<br>> aluminum clad wooden windows with mulli=
ons attached to glass, because<br>> aluminum clad were the same color, we=
re the same size diameter and had a<br>> six over six grill pattern appli=
ed to glass that was like the old six over<br>> six original window=2E<br=
>><br>> Any one out there that can define "like kind"=2E And do any di=
stricts have a<br>> list of windows that they approve?<br>><br>> Th=
anks,<br>><br>> Nancy Dole, West Tisbury Historic District Commission<=
br>><br>> ******************************<br>> For administrative qu=
estions regarding this list, please contact<br>> Christopher=2ESkelly at sta=
te=2Ema=2Eus directly=2E PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE<br>> WHOLE LIST=2E=
<br>> MassHistPres mailing list<br>> MassHistPres at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu<br>&g=
t; <a href=3D"http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eumb=2Eedu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres=
" target=3D"_new">http://mailman=2Ecs=2Eumb=2Eedu/mailman/listinfo/masshistp=
res</a> <br>> ********************************<br>><br>><br>-------=
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stPres mailing list<br>MassHistPres at cs=2Eumb=2Eedu<br> <a href=3D"http://mai=
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