[MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

[Richard Casella]

I have bought and restored or rehabilitated 8 houses in and out of historic districts, two which were condemned as structurally unsound (so don't be quick to buy that argument), and served as vice chair of a historic district commission in RI. If there were a set of rules to be strictly followed in all cases there would be no need for a commission to make judgement calls on what is sufficiently appropriate in a given case. We might all agree that in a historic tax credit rehab, where tax payers are being asked to subsidize the costs of what will be an income producing property, strict application of the NPS recommended treatments is just. But in the vast majority of cases that come before local commissions, especially in immature districts and those extending into economically challenged areas, a measure of practicality is justified. Demolitions, odd additions, radically altered openings and bad infill are what ruin districts - difficult or impossible to undue. But nearly everything else can be reversed by the next more sensitive/affluent owner.

 

If the applicant says his replacement water table and other trim will be wood, do you ask the species? Should it be old growth white pine to match, or is a rot resistant rain forest species OK? If it looks the same from the street why is that not sufficient? 

 

That said, my original pine water table boards are 228 years old so don't approve Azek based on the excuse that it is necessary in damp areas.  Approve it because the owner wants to use it and you are satisfied in their case that it will not diminish the character and integrity of the property to a point that it would no longer contribute positively to the historic district. Or disallow it - or at least strongly discourage it and offer to table the application for a month while the owner investigates wood alternatives - because of Jade's argument that plastic is messing up life on earth, which it is.    

 

Richard Casella (also 1955... duck and cover Jade, this time its the Azek bomb!).  

Portsmouth RI 

 

 

 

From: MassHistPres [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of heartwood
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2018 1:02 PM
To: James Blauch Architect <jamesblauch_architect at verizon.net>; 'Elizabeth Ware' <eware at dracutma.gov>; 'Elizabeth Mees' <emxmees at verizon.net>; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

 

thank you james blauch...

jade is a female proper noun...

best...

jade mortimer (female, born in 1955)...

 

jade mortimer
heartwood window restoration
po box 114 1605 mohawk trail
charlemont, ma 01339
413-625-8680

 

From: James Blauch Architect <mailto:jamesblauch_architect at verizon.net>  

Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 12:04 PM

To: 'heartwood' <mailto:jade at heartwoodrestoration.com>  ; 'Elizabeth Ware' <mailto:eware at dracutma.gov>  ; 'Elizabeth Mees' <mailto:emxmees at verizon.net>  ; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>  

Subject: RE: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

 

Very well said Mr. Mortimer.

 

Members may wish to review the attached NPS Preservation Brief, which, at the top of page 6 states:

 

“Because applications of substitute materials such as aluminum and vinyl siding can either destroy or conceal historic building material and features and, in consequence, result in the loss of a building's historic character, they are not recommended by the National Park Service.”

 

While this Preservation Brief is written to address substitute siding materials, I believe that this article infers that those materials would not be recommended by the NPS for trim at the grade, corner boards and water table.

 

Sincerely:

 

James Blauch Architect, NCARB

Silas Felton Historic District Commissioner in Hudson, MA

Cell: 508-868-8095

Email: JamesBlauch_Architect at verizon.net <mailto:JamesBlauch_Architect at verizon.net> 

 

From: MassHistPres [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of heartwood
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:38 PM
To: Elizabeth Ware <eware at dracutma.gov <mailto:eware at dracutma.gov> >; Elizabeth Mees <emxmees at verizon.net <mailto:emxmees at verizon.net> >; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> 
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

 

I can understand why folks may see PVC products as a viable alternative to wood in some situations but I don’t support

its use in any circumstance...I point to the attached document above and the links below as

just a few of the many reports regarding the danger polyvinyl chloride poses, from its manufacture to destruction... 

 

https://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=84

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-kksZrOG_s

 

please consider alternatives to this unhealthy product...

thanks.....

....jade

 

jade mortimer
heartwood window restoration
po box 114 1605 mohawk trail
charlemont, ma 01339
413-625-8680

 

From: Elizabeth Ware <mailto:eware at dracutma.gov>  

Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:50 AM

To: Elizabeth Mees <mailto:emxmees at verizon.net>  ; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>  

Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

 

 

I agree with Elizabeth on this issue.

I live in an historic house in  the center of Newburyport.  About five years ago I designed and built a two car, two-story carriage barn on the property.  

We used KOMA (similar to AZAK) for the corner boards and water table, with cedar clapboards on the siding.  All surfaces were painted. The carriage barn sits back about 70-80 feet from the street and one cannot tell the difference in materials.  Additionally, I’ve had no issue with differential expansion.

 

The house was to be included in a local historic district………..which never was approved.  That being stated, I see no issue in the use of these materials, (as long as they are used appropriately and in the same profiles, etc.)  since today’s woods are very different from old growth woods!

 

Betsy Ware

 

Director of Community Development

Town of Dracut, MA.

Telephone: 978-453-4557

 

From: MassHistPres [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Mees
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:20 AM
To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> 
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

 

Fellow List Members: 

feel compelled to mention that on a personal note, I had Azek trim installed on my own (non-historic, south-west facing cape) residence - board trim to cedar shingle exterior, window trim, and roof fascia some 18 years ago and have not experience any problems regarding differential expansion.

 

While the material may not be judged suitable from an aesthetic point of view, it has a positive cost/benefit ratio.

 

 

Liz Mees, AIA, IIDA< Leed AP

Chair, Braintree Historical Commission

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: James Blauch Architect <jamesblauch_architect at verizon.net <mailto:jamesblauch_architect at verizon.net> >
To: jneiswander <jneiswander at gmail.com <mailto:jneiswander at gmail.com> >; 'MHC Preservation listserv' <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> >
Sent: Thu, Jun 7, 2018 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

Ms. Neiswander:

 

PVC (and PVC based) products are specifically prohibited in our historic district when fronting on a street in the district.  We allow PVC siding to be used on walls that do not face or are not visible from the street.  Typically, the non-wood siding product used (and approved) for street fronting or street visible walls is cement board (like Hardie Plank).  We will approve cement board products for any exterior wall or application (and it is specifically stated as an approved product in our Rules & Regulations).  I think that a closer read on the NPS Regulations will show that PVC is not a product to be used.  Cement board is fine.  PVC is not.

 

Back to PVC products like Azek (noted as “Azak”).

As an Architect, I have found that the temperature expansion for any of the Azek products (siding & trim) may cause issues for the property owner; particularly along the roof eave or in large SF areas.  Try to get the Azek manufacturer to provide you with the coefficient of expansion for their product – no longer available.  A more staple solid PVC siding & trim product is manufactured in Pennsylvania by Wolf Home Products.  

I do not like to use and I hesitate to specify any PVC or PVC based products; including, windows & doors.

 

Sincerely:

 

James Blauch Architect, NCARB

Silas Felton Historic District Commissioner in Hudson, MA

Cell: 508-868-8095

Email:  <mailto:JamesBlauch_Architect at verizon.net> JamesBlauch_Architect at verizon.net

 

From: MassHistPres [ <mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu?> mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Judy Neiswander
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 7:22 PM
To: MHC Preservation listserv < <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Subject: [MassHistPres] Question about use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products

 

Fellow Historic District Commissioners;

 

Our Commission is often asked to allow the use of "Azak" or other synthetic polymer based products in moist areas in lieu of lumber. Most often requested are applications at the base water table adjacent to the grade, and for fascias and soffit material backing up gutters at the roof eave. When painted this material is indistinguishable from wood of similar dimensions.

 

Neither the Park Service nor MHC prohibit use and we are interested how other Historic Commissions have handled these requests. We would like to set a policy for our 'Guidelines'.

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

Judy Neiswander,

Commissioner,

Town of Dedham Historic Districts Commission and Historical Commission.

 

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