[MassHistPres] Use of Non-traditional and Synthetic Materials

[Dennis De Witt]

Cedar, or at least that available today, is OK for pickets and rails but experience here suggests it rots unacceptably fast in the ground when used for posts.

Dennis De Witt
Brookline

> On Aug 8, 2023, at 8:14 AM, heartwood via MassHistPres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> wrote:
> 
> morning...
> PVC=Polyvinyl Chloride also known as vinyl....
>  
> a good alternative would be cedar posts and pickets...if the design is simple, the pickets
> will be easy to mill...I strongly encourage treating with a coat of blopentine (boiled linseed
> oil/turpentine) prior to priming and painting with oil based products....painting every 5-7 years
> will offer many decades of functionality....for stabilization, plant posts in concrete...
>  
> ......jade
>  
> jade mortimer
> heartwood window restoration
> po box 114 1605 mohawk trail
> charlemont, ma 01339
> 413-625-8680
>  
> From: Nancy Dole <>
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 8:15 PM
> To: heartwood <>
> Cc: Garrett Laws <> ; MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu <>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Use of Non-traditional and Synthetic Materials
>  
> Thank you all, and what would you suggest instead of pvc fencing? And how to maintain it. I think we need to offer alternatives, since the Town seems to feel there aren’t any. Its an extremely simple picket fence. Is pvc truely vinyl? 
> 
>> On Aug 7, 2023, at 7:28 PM, heartwood <jade at heartwoodrestoration.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> concurring with garrett regarding vinyl fencing...I saw some this weekend in upstate ny that I recall
>> being installed about five years ago...there are broken sections, the posts are leaning considerably causing
>> boards to fall out and it is covered in mildew...PVC introduces toxins during manufacture and is not
>> recyclable...additionally, fences shouldn’t shine in headlights at night time ;)
>> 
>> I understand that budgets are a big concern for most homeowners and organizations...that said, we are
>> stewards of history especially those buildings owned and managed by municipalities...nothing will outlast
>> wood with a maintenance plan...triple paned windows with argon gas are a gimmick...in new england, the
>> windows are open 5 months of the year...draft and heat loss originate at the perimeter of the opening not
>> through the glass...even in a new ell, I would encourage wood—mahogany or spanish cedar—for a new
>> window...there really is no comparison in performance and longevity and authenticity...
>>  
>> .....jade
>>  
>> jade mortimer
>> heartwood window restoration
>> po box 114 1605 mohawk trail
>> charlemont, ma 01339
>> 413-625-8680
>>  
>> From: Garrett Laws via MassHistPres <>
>> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 3:59 PM
>> To: Nancy Dole <>
>> Cc: MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu <>
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Use of Non-traditional and Synthetic Materials
>>  
>> Heidi,
>>  
>> We are lucky to be a contractor that is replacing a lot of materials (in kind) that fail in 100 year cycles for copper and multiples thereof for slate. There are pros and cons to all situations but taking into account the longevity of a proposed material in a specific application, location, use and maintenance requirement is really very important. 
>>  
>> PVC (taking into increased expansion and contraction) has benefits where high moisture is a concern but using it to replicate intricate details in very sunny locations can have detrimental effects. PVC fences tend to have poor structure, become brittle over time, end up with a chalky surface and don't last well. As crazy as this idea might sound, I'd choose a colored chain link fence over a PVC fence... Why not do another wood fence and implement a maintenance program with a natural rot protectant?
>>  
>> I don't have any personal knowledge with Fibrex, how does it weather? What happens when it breaks down?
>>  
>> Many Thanks,
>> Garrett Laws
>>  
>> www.copperandslate.net <http://www.copperandslate.net/>
>> The Copper & Slate Company, Inc.
>> Fine Roofing and Historic Carpentry
>> 238 Calvary Street,
>> Waltham, MA 02453
>> (781) 893-1916
>>  
>> LEAD FREE SINCE 2008
>>  
>>  
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 3:23 PM Nancy Dole via MassHistPres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <>> wrote:
>>> West Tisbury has the same question. We are allowing aluminum clad and fibrex high quality windows with simulated divided lites in some cases, not in others. And we are having an issue with pvc trim repair. Getting a lot of requests but it doesn’t blend well with wood. We would love a list of manufacturers and models that other historic districts consider on a case by case basis.
>>> The Town had recently applied to replace a wooden picket fence around the cemetary with a pvc fence. They are concerned about longevity. We wish there were other options.
>>> Any thoughts?
>>> Thank you.
>>> Nancy Dole
>>> WTisbury HDC
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 7, 2023, at 2:58 PM, Heidi Fieldston via MassHistPres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Greetings:
>>>>  
>>>> We have a question about the policies of other Historical Commissions concerning the use of non-traditional and synthetic materials in new construction in historic districts:  Are they allowed?  Are there limitations on materials?  Does the context make a difference, e.g., dense vs. more spread-out? 
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you for your response.
>>>> 
>>>> Heidi Fieldston, Commissioner
>>>> Dedham Historic Districts Commission and Historical Commission
>>>> hfieldston at mac.com <>_______________________________________________
>>>> MassHistPres mailing list
>>>> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu <>
>>>> https://mailman.cs.umb.edu/listinfo/masshistpres <https://mailman.cs.umb.edu/listinfo/masshistpres>
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>> 
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