[MassHistPres] MassHistPres Digest, Vol 40, Issue 25

Mon Jun 8 12:12:43 EDT 2009

Carol.  I was inquiring into various policies regarding portable hoops.  My
intention was to get feedback, of which much has come in.  We have a
neighborhood situation where one person is the essence of the matter.  Third
party input is helpful in dealing with such an issue.

Thanks for your message.  We have no intention of interfering in the right
of passage,and fun, and lessons the asphalt brings.

Regards,

Pat Patrick

James M. "Pat" Patrick
OldTownRepair
2 Pleasant Court, Ground Floor Office
Marblehead, MA  01945-3310
781-631-5145 (P)
781-639-8024 (F)
pat at oldtownrepair.com
www.oldtownrepair.com

-----Original Message-----
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masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:07 AM
To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
Subject: MassHistPres Digest, Vol 40, Issue 25

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Today's Topics:

   1. New Demolition Proposal for Ames Shovel Shops (Ttorwig at aol.com)
   2. Re: Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports equipment in
      historic districts (Chris Walsh)
   3. Re: Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports equipment	in
      historic districts (jade)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:59:09 EDT
From: Ttorwig at aol.com
Subject: [MassHistPres] New Demolition Proposal for Ames Shovel Shops
To: Ttorwig at aol.com
Message-ID: <c83.3be0ec0e.375d139d at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Note: The Ames Shovel Shops are surrounded by several buildings designed by 
 H.H. Richardson for the Ames family. Here is the link to the National 
Trust  website, after their listing as one of 2009's Eleven Most Endangered

Places:
_http://www.preservationnation.org/travel-and-sites/sites/northeast-region/a
mes-shovel-shops.html_ 
(http://www.preservationnation.org/travel-and-sites/sites/northeast-region/a
mes-shovel-shops.html) 

Concern raised over fate of historic complex space
Ames Shovel Shops could face demolition

By _Mark Arsenault_ 
(http://search.boston.com/local/Search.do?s.sm.query=Mark+Arsenault&camp=loc
alsearch:on:byline:art)   

Boston Globe Correspondent / June 4, 2009  

Frustrated in their attempt to build housing at the Ames Shovel Shops, the  
owners of the historic complex are pursuing a new path: Rent out what space 
they  can and tear down the rest.

Developers George and Robert Turner last week applied for permits to raze 
all  of the stone and wood structures on the eight-acre site in the center
of 
town.  Their application came two days after the town Zoning Board of 
Appeals agreed to  allow development of affordable housing at the complex,
but 
with construction  restrictions to protect historic character. The Turners
say 
the restrictions go  too far and make their project impossible.

The Turners could appeal the local decision to the state Housing Appeals  
Committee, but the brothers say they don't want to fight over the housing 
plan,  and are leaning toward giving up their proposal and leveling the 
landmark  complex.

The Easton Historical Commission can delay the demolition for one year; the 
 Turners applied for demolition permits to start that clock ticking.

Town officials have pledged a fight to save the historic  structures.

The 15 granite and wood buildings on the site were built between 1852 and  
1928, according to the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Iron blade

shovels manufactured at the Ames complex were used during the Civil War, 
the  California gold rush, and the construction of the transcontinental 
railroad.  "It's an extraordinarily important place in the history of our
nation," 
said  Wendy Nicholas, director of the Northeast Regional Office of the 
National  Trust.

The Turners view the Ames Shovel Shops a little less romantically - as a  
gutted and at one time contaminated industrial site no other developers 
wanted.  "We tried for two and a half years to save those buildings," said
Robert 
Turner.  "I'm at peace."

After they knock down the structures, "we'll bank the land and wait for new 
 opportunities," said George Turner, 51.

"We're young," added Robert, 50. "We can wait."

Which buildings will they raze? Whichever ones they don't have rented next  
year, they say.

For historic preservationists, losing the Shovel Shops would be a  
catastrophe.

The Turners say it's just business. They're not running a charity. And if  
they aren't going forward with their affordable-housing plan, they want to 
tear  down the buildings they don't need, to get them off the tax rolls and 
to cut  their liabilities.

"No hard feelings," said Robert Turner.

That is hardly the case.

"I think they'll be building a sorry legacy for themselves if they go 
forward  with this," said Historical Commission member Greg Galer.

The Turners, who display several antique Ames shovels in their Raynham  
office, explained their plans in an interview last Friday. They insist
they're  
not bluffing, not acting out of spite, and not just upping the stakes to 
make  their affordable-housing proposal more appealing.

"I'm going to move on and do what I have to do to run our business, and we  
don't need all of those buildings," said Robert Turner.

The brothers proposed redeveloping the Shovel Shops into commercial space 
and  housing, including some affordable units, a year ago. They filed for a 
permit  under the state's 40-year-old affordable housing law, known as 
Chapter 40B,  which calls for an initial review by the local Zoning Board of

Appeals.

After some tweaking, the Turners' final proposal was for 160 rental units, 
17  condominiums, 15,000 square feet of commercial space, and 373 parking 
spaces, on  land bounded by Oliver and Main streets.

Preservationists objected to the plan, which proposed expanding several  
historic buildings with additional floors, and razing other buildings. 
Throwing  a spotlight on the face-off, the National Trust for Historic
Preservation 
in  April named the Ames Shovel Shops one of the 11 "most endangered 
historic  places" in America.

When the zoning board ruled on the affordable-housing plan May 26, the  
preservationists liked the decision a lot better than the Turners did. The 
board  concluded that the housing proposal would "adversely and irreversibly

affect the  historical significance of the Shovel Shops complex and the
North 
Easton  Historical District," and that the Turners' plans "do not adequately

preserve,  restore, or renovate the historic structures."

The zoning board issued the Turners a permit for affordable housing, but 
with  limits on the height of the buildings and restrictions on other
physical 
 changes.

Nicholas, from the National Trust, said the zoning board's decision was 
"not  perfect but pretty darn good." The board was "clearly concerned for
the  
preservation of this really important landmark," she said.

Galer, a member of the Historical Commission for more than 10 years, said 
he  was "happy the zoning board recognized the site is uniquely historically

significant, and that was preeminent in how this project was  reviewed."

The Turners say the restrictions would make their plan financially  
impossible, and that alternatives suggested by preservationists won't work,

either. The opposition to their plans "isn't about saving buildings," Robert

Turner charged, "it's about stopping affordable housing."

Not true, says Galer. "They could do something great there, including  
affordable housing," he said. "I just think their proposal doesn't treat the

historic assets as assets."

Easton Building Inspector Mark Trivett confirmed that the Turners have  
applied for multiple demolition permits to flatten the site. Under the
town's  
demolition review bylaw, which applies to buildings 75 or more years old,  
Trivett must forward the demolition applications to the Easton Historical  
Commission. The commission is expected to hold a public hearing on the  
applications within a month.

Mark Arsenault can be reached at _mark0079 at comcast.net_ 
(mailto:mark0079 at comcast.net) . 
? Copyright 2009 Globe Newspaper  Company.

**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
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p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:57:22 -0400
From: Chris Walsh <arcwalsh at rcn.com>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
	equipment in	historic districts
To: Carol Carlson <carolmcarl at comcast.net>
Cc: 'Masshistpres' <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <4A2D26D2.5060006 at rcn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Isn't this just an example how instantaneous electronic communication
can't handle irony or for that matter humor with out those cheesy
emot-icons.
If it is humorous, make reference - if serious then we might be in a
passel of trouble- Chris Walsh -Framingham

Carol Carlson wrote:
> With all due respect, you've got to be kidding me!   I don't think my
> 13 year old, who's on a basketball team, would want to play hopscotch
> instead of practicing shooting hoops with a few friends of his.   I
> did, however, send the Victorian toy web site to the President of the
> Job Lane House Farm Museum here in town.  
>
> I've been on our town's HDC for years, and have never had this issue
> come up.  But if it did, I can't even imagine wanting to have a public
> hearing on its pros and cons.  A basketball hoop usually means there
> are children living in the home, and if it's a historic property, how
> wonderful that these children are learning about historic preservation
> while enjoying some great exercise!  Kids all sit in front of a
> computer/TV too much as it is, so please don't take their hoops away!
>
> Carol M Carlson
> Bedford MA
>
> Alexander Macmillan wrote:
>>
>> *Supplementing my earlier advisory on basketball hoops:*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *Certainly if the period of significance for the historic district is
>> early 19^th or even 18^th century, then basketball should be
>> discouraged. Hoop-rolling and certain other alternatives would, of
>> course, be authorized as of right. The Acton Historic District
>> Commission might wish to consult this site to determine, in each
>> case, what leisure activities can be permitted:
>> **http://www.ushist.com/victorian_toys-and-games.htm*
>>
>>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:07:03 -0400
From: "jade" <jade at crocker.com>
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
	equipment	in	historic districts
To: "Carol Carlson" <carolmcarl at comcast.net>,	"Alexander Macmillan"
	<alexandermacmillan at comcast.net>
Cc: 'Chris Skelly' <skelly-mhc at comcast.net>,	'Masshistpres'
	<masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Message-ID: <CF8394A5F714483EB89B01B4F46CE99E at jadePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

you could set up a few hoops at bedford farms and have a good old fashioned
ice cream social and community gathering...oh wait, that building is
historic, isn't it?  croquette and badminton might be allowed on some lawns
but hopscotch chalk would certainly tarnish the natural patina of the
asphalt driveway...one, two, three RED LIGHT!

...jade mortimer
heartwood window restoration
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Carol Carlson 
  To: Alexander Macmillan 
  Cc: 'Chris Skelly' ; 'Masshistpres' 
  Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
equipment in historic districts

  With all due respect, you've got to be kidding me!   I don't think my 13
year old, who's on a basketball team, would want to play hopscotch instead
of practicing shooting hoops with a few friends of his.   I did, however,
send the Victorian toy web site to the President of the Job Lane House Farm
Museum here in town.   

  I've been on our town's HDC for years, and have never had this issue come
up.  But if it did, I can't even imagine wanting to have a public hearing on
its pros and cons.  A basketball hoop usually means there are children
living in the home, and if it's a historic property, how wonderful that
these children are learning about historic preservation while enjoying some
great exercise!  Kids all sit in front of a computer/TV too much as it is,
so please don't take their hoops away!

  Carol M Carlson
  Bedford MA

  Alexander Macmillan wrote: 
    Supplementing my earlier advisory on basketball hoops:

    Certainly if the period of significance for the historic district is
early 19th or even 18th century, then basketball should be discouraged.
Hoop-rolling and certain other alternatives would, of course, be authorized
as of right. The Acton Historic District Commission might wish to consult
this site to determine, in each case, what leisure activities can be
permitted: http://www.ushist.com/victorian_toys-and-games.htm

    From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
[mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Skelly
    Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:47 AM
    To: Masshistpres
    Subject: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports equipment
in historic districts

      I'm having a hard time understanding what the concern would be with a
basketball hoop located in your local historic district.  Can you elaborate
on the specifics here. Chris   

      Chris Skelly 

      Director of Local Government Programs

      Massachusetts Historical Commission

      Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us

      On Jun 4, 2009, at 9:05 AM, "michaelamoran1"
<michaelamoran1 at earthlink.net> wrote:

        Acton Historic District Commission has an application for a
permanent basket ball hoop in a prominent location in our Acton Center
district. Might any other historic district commissions have come across
this kind of request? If so, what measures were taken in response?

        Michaela Moran,

        Vice-Chairperson

        Acton Historic District Commission

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