[MassHistPres] Basketball Hoop question - one more time!

Thu Jun 11 22:06:08 EDT 2009

Although I'd like to know more about the reply below and a couple of others,
as a former 18-year HDC member I must say that the responses to the Acton
HDC's query on 6/4 have been a really lousy use of the list-serve.

The request for comparison about how other commissions have handled
basketball hoops was legitimate.  As Michaela Moran stated, the Acton HDC
had actually received an application for one.  This was for the installation
of a permanent hoop and pole, although it could just as well have
been for one on a backboard fixed to the building.  There was no mention in 
her email of
holding a public hearing on it.  It would of course be considered minor
enough to go through the waiver-of-hearing process in as simple and
streamlined a way as possible.  The problem is that nothing in either 40-C
or the local bylaw gives the HDC the go-ahead to issue a Certificate of
Non-applicability - the reason being that it is a permanent exterior
fixture.

The Acton HDC reviews some types of minor changes under Administrative
Review, but sporting structures are not presently on that list.  Although
the commission could add them (or some of them) to the AR list in the
future, that wouldn't apply to the present application.  And with two
playgrounds located in the districts, it would be madness to exempt all
permanent play equipment from HDC review.

Several contributors to the list-serve seemed to assume that this was a
portable, temporary piece of sports equipment, which it is not.  There was 
at
least one implication that because a building permit wasn't required it was
something the HDC shouldn't even deal with, and even a reference to "taste
police."   How much have we learned from hard-won legal cases over things
like street furniture?  Shall we bring back the newspaper vending machines?
And forget about shutters, satellite dishes (which at least have gotten 
smaller, though there are more of them) and - dare I say it - replacement 
windows and doors because they don't require a building permit?  Light 
fixtures?  Playgrounds?

The underlying question of course was, What does an HDC do with an 
application for something that they would just as soon forget about, when 
the ordinance or bylaw says they can't?

So, very funny, guys.  Good luck the next time you (or heaven forbid, some 
of your newer, inexperienced members, which Acton's commission is largely 
made up of) ask for help from other commissions on an uncommon historic 
district dilemma.

Anne Forbes
Former member, Acton HDC

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pat Patrick" <pat at oldtownrepair.com>
To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] MassHistPres Digest, Vol 40, Issue 25

> Carol.  I was inquiring into various policies regarding portable hoops.
> My
> intention was to get feedback, of which much has come in.  We have a
> neighborhood situation where one person is the essence of the matter.
> Third
> party input is helpful in dealing with such an issue.
>
> Thanks for your message.  We have no intention of interfering in the right
> of passage,and fun, and lessons the asphalt brings.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pat Patrick
>
> James M. "Pat" Patrick
> OldTownRepair
> 2 Pleasant Court, Ground Floor Office
> Marblehead, MA  01945-3310
> 781-631-5145 (P)
> 781-639-8024 (F)
> pat at oldtownrepair.com
> www.oldtownrepair.com

>
>
>
>
> **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
> Steps!
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:57:22 -0400
> From: Chris Walsh <arcwalsh at rcn.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
> equipment in historic districts
> To: Carol Carlson <carolmcarl at comcast.net>
> Cc: 'Masshistpres' <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID: <4A2D26D2.5060006 at rcn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Isn't this just an example how instantaneous electronic communication
> can't handle irony or for that matter humor with out those cheesy
> emot-icons.
> If it is humorous, make reference - if serious then we might be in a
> passel of trouble- Chris Walsh -Framingham
>
>
>
> Carol Carlson wrote:
>> With all due respect, you've got to be kidding me!   I don't think my
>> 13 year old, who's on a basketball team, would want to play hopscotch
>> instead of practicing shooting hoops with a few friends of his.   I
>> did, however, send the Victorian toy web site to the President of the
>> Job Lane House Farm Museum here in town.
>>
>> I've been on our town's HDC for years, and have never had this issue
>> come up.  But if it did, I can't even imagine wanting to have a public
>> hearing on its pros and cons.  A basketball hoop usually means there
>> are children living in the home, and if it's a historic property, how
>> wonderful that these children are learning about historic preservation
>> while enjoying some great exercise!  Kids all sit in front of a
>> computer/TV too much as it is, so please don't take their hoops away!
>>
>> Carol M Carlson
>> Bedford MA
>>
>> Alexander Macmillan wrote:
>>>
>>> *Supplementing my earlier advisory on basketball hoops:*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *Certainly if the period of significance for the historic district is
>>> early 19^th or even 18^th century, then basketball should be
>>> discouraged. Hoop-rolling and certain other alternatives would, of
>>> course, be authorized as of right. The Acton Historic District
>>> Commission might wish to consult this site to determine, in each
>>> case, what leisure activities can be permitted:
>>> **http://www.ushist.com/victorian_toys-and-games.htm*
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:07:03 -0400
> From: "jade" <jade at crocker.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
> equipment in historic districts
> To: "Carol Carlson" <carolmcarl at comcast.net>, "Alexander Macmillan"
> <alexandermacmillan at comcast.net>
> Cc: 'Chris Skelly' <skelly-mhc at comcast.net>, 'Masshistpres'
> <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Message-ID: <CF8394A5F714483EB89B01B4F46CE99E at jadePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> you could set up a few hoops at bedford farms and have a good old
> fashioned
> ice cream social and community gathering...oh wait, that building is
> historic, isn't it?  croquette and badminton might be allowed on some
> lawns
> but hopscotch chalk would certainly tarnish the natural patina of the
> asphalt driveway...one, two, three RED LIGHT!
>
> ...jade mortimer
> heartwood window restoration
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Carol Carlson
>  To: Alexander Macmillan
>  Cc: 'Chris Skelly' ; 'Masshistpres'
>  Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:07 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
> equipment in historic districts
>
>
>  With all due respect, you've got to be kidding me!   I don't think my 13
> year old, who's on a basketball team, would want to play hopscotch instead
> of practicing shooting hoops with a few friends of his.   I did, however,
> send the Victorian toy web site to the President of the Job Lane House
> Farm
> Museum here in town.
>
>  I've been on our town's HDC for years, and have never had this issue come
> up.  But if it did, I can't even imagine wanting to have a public hearing
> on
> its pros and cons.  A basketball hoop usually means there are children
> living in the home, and if it's a historic property, how wonderful that
> these children are learning about historic preservation while enjoying
> some
> great exercise!  Kids all sit in front of a computer/TV too much as it is,
> so please don't take their hoops away!
>
>  Carol M Carlson
>  Bedford MA
>
>  Alexander Macmillan wrote:
>    Supplementing my earlier advisory on basketball hoops:
>
>
>
>    Certainly if the period of significance for the historic district is
> early 19th or even 18th century, then basketball should be discouraged.
> Hoop-rolling and certain other alternatives would, of course, be
> authorized
> as of right. The Acton Historic District Commission might wish to consult
> this site to determine, in each case, what leisure activities can be
> permitted: http://www.ushist.com/victorian_toys-and-games.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>    From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu
> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Skelly
>    Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:47 AM
>    To: Masshistpres
>    Subject: [MassHistPres] Fwd: basket ball hoops or other sports
> equipment
> in historic districts
>
>
>
>      I'm having a hard time understanding what the concern would be with a
> basketball hoop located in your local historic district.  Can you
> elaborate
> on the specifics here. Chris
>
>
>      Chris Skelly
>
>      Director of Local Government Programs
>
>      Massachusetts Historical Commission
>
>      Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us
>
>
>      On Jun 4, 2009, at 9:05 AM, "michaelamoran1"
> <michaelamoran1 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>        Acton Historic District Commission has an application for a
> permanent basket ball hoop in a prominent location in our Acton Center
> district. Might any other historic district commissions have come across
> this kind of request? If so, what measures were taken in response?
>
>
>
>        Michaela Moran,
>
>        Vice-Chairperson
>
>        Acton Historic District Commission
>
> 