[MassHistPres] bell-cell tower
John Worden
jworden at swwalaw.com
Wed Nov 25 10:42:10 EST 2009
Some years ago we approved a cell antenna installation in the steeple of the
Pleasant St. Congregational Church (1840). It is totally out of sight, but
I think they did replace a wooden vent with one of fiberglass.
I'm sure that the revenues from the cell phone company have helped the
church finance its extensive program of restoration to other parts of the
building, and to the adjoining (ca. 1950) parish house.
J. Worden
Arlington HDC
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----- Original Message -----
From: <masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu>
To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:38 PM
Subject: [SPAM] MassHistPres Digest, Vol 45, Issue 24
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae (Tristram Metcalfe 3)
> 2. Re: Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae (jade)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:31:23 -0500
> From: Tristram Metcalfe 3 <twm3 at rcn.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
> To: jade <jade at crocker.com>, dgkalman4 at cs.com
> Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID: <D47CE5B5-7185-4086-A4E1-E4CE07AA2B6F at rcn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
> DelSp="yes"
>
> Answering David first,
>> Rents for cell towers are pretty steep Is there any sort of
>> community benefit for these changes. David Kelman
>
> Yes absolutely there is HUGE public benefit to cell towers in
> steeples or towers of historic buildings.
> 1. it gives very important financial help to churches typically
> sorely needing maintenance support and
> 2. it provides critically important human access to community with
> cell radio wave technology providing life safety, quality of life
> convenience in both business and family connections.
>
> Here in Western Mass we experience some of the worst cell coverage in
> the developed world, as we watch the cell companies spending millions
> advertising with their bold faced lies about how great their coverage
> is while they have largely stopped building towers. Even some heavily
> populated areas have dead cell zones.
>
> We are restoring a church into a performing arts center and it now
> has two cell companies inside its tower. It is a a very low cost
> platform for them. The funds it will produce will be critical in the
> pro-forma of sustainability to maintain the beautiful architecture on
> into the future benefiting the public many ways.
>
>
> On the topic of materials, in now over 30 years of fighting to
> preserve historic buildings, I have to say; If you can't tell its not
> wood but is a much longer lasting material holding paint much longer
> it then will preserve the history longer and ultimately can be seen
> as a better job. On the other hand If it is readily apparent it is
> not wood when it was before restoration, we might all agree it should
> remain as wood.
>
> The more critical issue is the authentic proportions of the trim as
> being far more important than the materials in a restoration.
>
> I have seen a steeple restored that used authentic materials but lost
> the true proportions and slope of some small detail proportions in
> only one area, and it is very sad to see. I would agree with Jade
> totally if the fiberglass is not PERFECTLY copied from the original
> wood to the nearest 1/4".
>
> Our commission recently approved a small cell antenna on the exterior
> of a stone steeple and it was ultimately a mistake even if not a real
> noticeable one. They faked the drawing dimensions twice, and then did
> a photo shop rendering that was obviously unrealistic and we at each
> stage corrected them but in the final build it still fell short of
> optimum. Cell antenna inside is far better but still watch out for
> the exterior details.
>
> As materials get better in sustainability and performance while being
> virtually impossible to identify up close, it seems very unwise to
> continue a false perception about the importance of what kind of
> molecules are under the paint if it adds performance and greatly
> lowers the cost of preservation into the future.
>
> If we ever [hopefully] arrive at a civilization that truly
> understands and values historic architecture and thus the financial
> support is no longer critical,, then the true low performance
> materials can always be returned, but staying true to the detail
> proportions is an under appreciated value.
>
> Tris Metcalfe
>
>>
>
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:41 PM, jade wrote:
>
>> how sad for the town of wenham and the bell tower of the
>> congregational church....as the saying goes, looks can be
>> deceiving......introducing the frankensteeple....
>>
>> i mean no disrespect to any individual but it is truly beyond me
>> how an historic commission can approve replacing architectural wood
>> components with fiberglass especially at the request of a cell
>> phone company for monetary gain....
>>
>> ....jade
>> heartwood window restoration
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: james howard
>> To: Robin Ragle-Davis ; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
>>
>> Robin, Here in Wenham we have approved a cell antenna in the bell
>> tower of
>> the Congregational Church in the center of the Wenham Historic
>> District.
>> The main antenna is inside of the bell tower and cannot be seen
>> from the
>> outside. There were black wooden louvers on the outside walls of
>> the bell
>> tower. The cell company, T-Mobile requested that these black
>> louvers be
>> replaced with fiber glass louvers. We asked them to send us a
>> sample of the
>> fiberglass louvers. They did and the fiber glass louvers looked
>> exactly
>> like wooden ones so we approved them. They also asked to put a
>> short 15
>> inch GPS antenna on the base of the bell tower. We told them that
>> this
>> short outside antenna had to be placed in the rear portion of the
>> bell tower
>> so that it would not be visible from the street. Unfortunately
>> they put in
>> the front but of the bell tower but have agreed to move it to the
>> rear.
>> There was one other outside component, and AC condenser which has been
>> placed on a portion the foundation that is below grade and thus not
>> visible
>> form the street. We approved this also. All of this has been
>> installed and
>> should begin operating in a week or so.
>>
>> We also have an application for a second antenna to be placed in
>> the portion
>> of the steeple that is above the bell tower. Again the main
>> antenna will be
>> inside the steeple. However the cell company proposed to replace
>> this whole
>> wooden section at the top of the steeple with a fiberglass
>> replica. We have
>> been looking at other churches with fiberglass steeples and it is
>> virtually
>> impossible to tell the difference. My guess is that we will
>> approve this
>> antenna when we get the formal application.
>>
>> Jim Howard
>> Chair
>> Wenham Historic District Commission
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin Ragle-Davis" <robin at rrinteractive.com>
>> To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:37 PM
>> Subject: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
>>
>>
>> > Has anyone reviewed a request for installation of antennae (75 ft
>> or so)
>> > within a church bell tower?
>> >
>> > If so does anyone have photos of what this might look like?
>> >
>> > Robin Ragle-Davis, Chair
>> > Wareham Historical Commission
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ******************************
>> > For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
>> > Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY"
>> TO THE
>> > WHOLE LIST.
>> > MassHistPres mailing list
>> > MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
>> > http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
>> > ********************************
>>
>> ******************************
>> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
>> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
>> THE WHOLE LIST.
>> MassHistPres mailing list
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>>
>> ******************************
>> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
>> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
>> THE WHOLE LIST.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:37:50 -0500
> From: "jade" <jade at crocker.com>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
> To: "Tristram Metcalfe 3" <twm3 at rcn.com>, <dgkalman4 at cs.com>
> Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Message-ID: <C252766530904AF4B3E339C5459CD474 at jadePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> i agree that a cell phone offers critical human access when one driver
> talking on their cell phone rams into another driver talking on their cell
> phone...a pedestrian walking by talking on their cell phone can put the
> first caller on hold while they dial 911....(i live in western ma and have
> no reception for a 10 mile radius from my home...verizon lied!)
>
> as i understand it, the original poster stated that the phone company
> requested replacing the venting louvers and the top of the steeple with a
> 'replica' in fiberglass....there was no mention of deterioration of the
> components...
>
> in both the examples given of your respective historic commission
> approvals, it appears the designer/installer tried more than once to pull
> a fast one over on y'all...beware of plastic resin precedents and those
> who request/install them....
>
> there is nothing more sustainable than a an old building still
> standing...as one preservationist observed in a discussion regarding
> window restoration vs window replacement "the only thing worse than
> replacing original fabric is arson"....
>
> i can certainly see the quandary inherent in making choices when a big
> chunk of maintenance sustaining cash is at hand...
>
> to be continued.......
> ....jade
> heartwood window restoration
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tristram Metcalfe 3
> To: jade ; dgkalman4 at cs.com
> Cc: james howard ; Robin Ragle-Davis ; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
>
>
> Answering David first,
> Rents for cell towers are pretty steep Is there any sort of community
> benefit for these changes. David Kelman
> Yes absolutely there is HUGE public benefit to cell towers in steeples
> or towers of historic buildings.
> 1. it gives very important financial help to churches typically sorely
> needing maintenance support and
> 2. it provides critically important human access to community with cell
> radio wave technology providing life safety, quality of life convenience
> in both business and family connections.
>
>
> Here in Western Mass we experience some of the worst cell coverage in the
> developed world, as we watch the cell companies spending millions
> advertising with their bold faced lies about how great their coverage is
> while they have largely stopped building towers. Even some heavily
> populated areas have dead cell zones.
>
>
> We are restoring a church into a performing arts center and it now has
> two cell companies inside its tower. It is a a very low cost platform for
> them. The funds it will produce will be critical in the pro-forma of
> sustainability to maintain the beautiful architecture on into the future
> benefiting the public many ways.
>
>
>
>
> On the topic of materials, in now over 30 years of fighting to preserve
> historic buildings, I have to say; If you can't tell its not wood but is a
> much longer lasting material holding paint much longer it then will
> preserve the history longer and ultimately can be seen as a better job. On
> the other hand If it is readily apparent it is not wood when it was before
> restoration, we might all agree it should remain as wood.
>
>
> The more critical issue is the authentic proportions of the trim as being
> far more important than the materials in a restoration.
>
>
> I have seen a steeple restored that used authentic materials but lost the
> true proportions and slope of some small detail proportions in only one
> area, and it is very sad to see. I would agree with Jade totally if the
> fiberglass is not PERFECTLY copied from the original wood to the nearest
> 1/4".
>
>
> Our commission recently approved a small cell antenna on the exterior of
> a stone steeple and it was ultimately a mistake even if not a real
> noticeable one. They faked the drawing dimensions twice, and then did a
> photo shop rendering that was obviously unrealistic and we at each stage
> corrected them but in the final build it still fell short of optimum. Cell
> antenna inside is far better but still watch out for the exterior details.
>
> As materials get better in sustainability and performance while being
> virtually impossible to identify up close, it seems very unwise to
> continue a false perception about the importance of what kind of molecules
> are under the paint if it adds performance and greatly lowers the cost of
> preservation into the future.
>
>
> If we ever [hopefully] arrive at a civilization that truly understands
> and values historic architecture and thus the financial support is no
> longer critical,, then the true low performance materials can always be
> returned, but staying true to the detail proportions is an under
> appreciated value.
>
>
> Tris Metcalfe
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:41 PM, jade wrote:
>
>
> how sad for the town of wenham and the bell tower of the congregational
> church....as the saying goes, looks can be deceiving......introducing the
> frankensteeple....
>
> i mean no disrespect to any individual but it is truly beyond me how an
> historic commission can approve replacing architectural wood components
> with fiberglass especially at the request of a cell phone company for
> monetary gain....
>
> ....jade
> heartwood window restoration
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: james howard
> To: Robin Ragle-Davis ; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
>
>
> Robin, Here in Wenham we have approved a cell antenna in the bell
> tower of
> the Congregational Church in the center of the Wenham Historic
> District.
> The main antenna is inside of the bell tower and cannot be seen from
> the
> outside. There were black wooden louvers on the outside walls of
> the bell
> tower. The cell company, T-Mobile requested that these black louvers
> be
> replaced with fiber glass louvers. We asked them to send us a sample
> of the
> fiberglass louvers. They did and the fiber glass louvers looked
> exactly
> like wooden ones so we approved them. They also asked to put a short
> 15
> inch GPS antenna on the base of the bell tower. We told them that
> this
> short outside antenna had to be placed in the rear portion of the
> bell tower
> so that it would not be visible from the street. Unfortunately they
> put in
> the front but of the bell tower but have agreed to move it to the
> rear.
> There was one other outside component, and AC condenser which has
> been
> placed on a portion the foundation that is below grade and thus not
> visible
> form the street. We approved this also. All of this has been
> installed and
> should begin operating in a week or so.
>
> We also have an application for a second antenna to be placed in the
> portion
> of the steeple that is above the bell tower. Again the main antenna
> will be
> inside the steeple. However the cell company proposed to replace
> this whole
> wooden section at the top of the steeple with a fiberglass replica.
> We have
> been looking at other churches with fiberglass steeples and it is
> virtually
> impossible to tell the difference. My guess is that we will approve
> this
> antenna when we get the formal application.
>
> Jim Howard
> Chair
> Wenham Historic District Commission
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Ragle-Davis" <robin at rrinteractive.com>
> To: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:37 PM
> Subject: [MassHistPres] Bell Tower Telecommunications Antennae
>
>
> > Has anyone reviewed a request for installation of antennae (75 ft
> or so)
> > within a church bell tower?
> >
> > If so does anyone have photos of what this might look like?
> >
> > Robin Ragle-Davis, Chair
> > Wareham Historical Commission
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ******************************
> > For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> > Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO
> THE
> > WHOLE LIST.
> > MassHistPres mailing list
> > MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> > http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> > ********************************
>
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE
> WHOLE LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
> ********************************
>
>
> ******************************
> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact
> Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly. PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE
> WHOLE LIST.
> MassHistPres mailing list
> MassHistPres at cs.umb.edu
> http://mailman.cs.umb.edu/mailman/listinfo/masshistpres
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