[MassHistPres] Chris Warner on plastic railing systems

strachan.ruth at gmail.com strachan.ruth at gmail.com
Mon Oct 3 15:04:08 EDT 2016


> Re: Chris Warner's question about approving deck railing systems of plastic as the owner preferred their "low maintenance".  I believe they are really "no maintenance" because they can't be maintained.  The minute they are installed, they begin to deteriorate.  Affected by the sun and environment, the manufactured material becomes brittle, and has a short life compared to painted and maintained wood which, as we know, can last a century or two.  
> 
> Ruth Strachan
> Ipswich Historic Commission, associate member 
> Architectural Preservation District Commission, associate member
>    
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:45 PM, masshistpres-request at cs.umb.edu wrote:
>> 
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Controversy about what colors to paint a restored    Town Hall
>>      (Peter K Johnson)
>>   2. Re: Controversy about what colors to paint a    restored Town
>>      Hall (Eric Dray)
>>   3. Re: Contemporary materials in Historic Districts (Young, Andrea)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 11:31:38 -0400
>> From: Peter K Johnson <johnsonkpeter at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [MassHistPres] Controversy about what colors to paint a
>>    restored    Town Hall
>> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> Message-ID:
>>    <CADZofoBnifsK9LUo2VyfVB7B+6cYzeyzpn7EqEKxv9hA+6ccow at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I'm chair of the Historical Commission in Hanover, and would like to hear
>> others' opinion about about a current controversy in our town about what
>> color to paint the about-to-be-restored Town Hall. This project, using CPA
>> funds, is about to go out to bid. The plans call for restoring the building
>> to its 1893 "state", when it was the smaller, 1863 structure was remodeled
>> and enlarged by architect J. Williams Beal, a resident of Hanover (and also
>> architect of Castle in the Clouds in NH). Paint analysis show that in 1893
>> the clapboards on the building were painted a dark grey-green, with the
>> rather elaborate trim (window frames, corners pilasters, front portico,
>> cornices, and cupola) painted a cream color.  Sometime in the 1920's (we
>> think) the building was painted entirely white, and that has been its color
>> ever since, most recently clad in white vinyl siding sometime in the
>> 1980's.
>> 
>> The Town Manager decided that reverting to the 1893 color scheme would
>> cause great controversy in town and decided to put up a straw poll online,
>> so that residents could vote.  You can see it here. The link is a bit
>> glitchy, but it does eventually open...the
>> 
>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/PM2DY2P
>> 
>> At this point, votes for the 1893 color scheme and all-white are about
>> equal. (The yellowish-brown,1863 scheme should not have been posted - and
>> is getting very few votes anyway). The Town Moderator has just weighed in
>> on the Town's Facebook page calling the 1893 colors "truly dreadful", that
>> "our ancestors found to be a bad choice and switched to white".  His
>> opinion will have some influence. The Historical Commission is preparing a
>> response.  Does anyone have any experience with such a situation - and/or
>> advice about the best strategy for responding? Obviously an emotional issue
>> here, fueled by the idea that buildings in New England town centers were
>> always white.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Peter Johnson
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 12:12:54 -0400
>> From: Eric Dray <ericedray at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Controversy about what colors to paint a
>>    restored Town Hall
>> To: Peter K Johnson <johnsonkpeter at gmail.com>
>> Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> Message-ID: <791D691B-4013-4C23-8C05-250CA5BC9E47 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> We had the exact situation in Provincetown with our town hall.  I was Chair of our HC at the time. I suggested that the architects color the elevation drawings with the proposed Victorian-era scheme. Once people saw the drawing, they liked it and let go of their desire to keep it white. We turned the front elevation drawing into a poster and sold it to raise money. Once it was painted, no complaints at all. 
>> Eric Dray 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Peter K Johnson <johnsonkpeter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm chair of the Historical Commission in Hanover, and would like to hear others' opinion about about a current controversy in our town about what color to paint the about-to-be-restored Town Hall. This project, using CPA funds, is about to go out to bid. The plans call for restoring the building to its 1893 "state", when it was the smaller, 1863 structure was remodeled and enlarged by architect J. Williams Beal, a resident of Hanover (and also architect of Castle in the Clouds in NH). Paint analysis show that in 1893 the clapboards on the building were painted a dark grey-green, with the rather elaborate trim (window frames, corners pilasters, front portico, cornices, and cupola) painted a cream color.  Sometime in the 1920's (we think) the building was painted entirely white, and that has been its color ever since, most recently clad in white vinyl siding sometime in the 1980's. 
>>> 
>>> The Town Manager decided that reverting to the 1893 color scheme would cause great controversy in town and decided to put up a straw poll online, so that residents could vote.  You can see it here. The link is a bit glitchy, but it does eventually open...the 
>>> 
>>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/PM2DY2P
>>> 
>>> At this point, votes for the 1893 color scheme and all-white are about equal. (The yellowish-brown,1863 scheme should not have been posted - and is getting very few votes anyway). The Town Moderator has just weighed in on the Town's Facebook page calling the 1893 colors "truly dreadful", that "our ancestors found to be a bad choice and switched to white".  His opinion will have some influence. The Historical Commission is preparing a response.  Does anyone have any experience with such a situation - and/or advice about the best strategy for responding? Obviously an emotional issue here, fueled by the idea that buildings in New England town centers were always white. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks 
>>> 
>>> Peter Johnson
>>> ******************************
>>> For administrative questions regarding this list, please contact Christopher.Skelly at state.ma.us directly.  PLEASE DO NOT "REPLY" TO THE WHOLE LIST.
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 16:35:58 +0000
>> From: "Young, Andrea" <YoungA at hingham-ma.gov>
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Contemporary materials in Historic
>>    Districts
>> To: "'James J. O'Rourke Jr.'" <jimorourke151 at outlook.com>,    "'Patricia
>>    Kelleher'" <pkelleher at Salem.com>,    "'Chris Warner'"
>>    <chriswarnerarch at gmail.com>,    "masshistpres at cs.umb.edu"
>>    <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>> Cc: "Susan at cs.umb.edu" <Susan at cs.umb.edu>,    "'Larry Spang \(E-mail\)'"
>>    <spang at arrowstreet.com>,    'Reed Cutting' <attorneycutting at gmail.com>,
>>    'Jane    Turiel' <janeturiel at me.com>, "'Laurie    Weisman \(E-mail\)'"
>>    <salemknitter at comcast.net>,    "'Laurie Weisman \(E-mail 2\)'"
>>    <laurie.e.weisman at state.ma.us>,    "'David Hart \(E-mail\)'"
>>    <davidatsalem at comcast.net>,    'Keenan' <sue at suekeenan.com>, 'Joanne
>>    McCrea' <jfitzmc429 at gmail.com>,    "'Kathy Harper \(E-mail\)'"
>>    <kharper345 at hotmail.com>,    "'Jessica Herbert \(E-mail 2\)'"
>>    <jherbert5 at comcast.net>
>> Message-ID:
>>    <EF78C06AEE70374CB4F7FA7FED2D65E4D4E6D08D at HIN-EXC2.town.hingham-ma.gov>
>>    
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hingham uses Preservation Brief 16 from the National Park Service as a guide.
>> 
>> https://www.nps.gov/tps/how-to-preserve/briefs/16-substitute-materials.htm
>> 
>> 
>> [Town of Hingham]<http://www.hingham-ma.gov/>
>> 
>> 
>> Andrea Young
>> Administrator
>> Hingham Historical Commission
>> Hingham Historic Districts Commission
>> Town of Hingham
>> 210 Central Street
>> Hingham, MA 02043
>> Voice: (781) 741-1492
>> younga at hingham-ma.gov<mailto:younga at hingham-ma.gov>
>> www.hingham-ma.gov<http://www.hingham-ma.gov>
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of James J. O'Rourke Jr.
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 3:48 PM
>> To: 'Patricia Kelleher'; 'Chris Warner'; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>> Cc: 'Larry Spang (E-mail)'; 'Reed Cutting'; 'Jane Turiel'; 'Laurie Weisman (E-mail)'; 'Laurie Weisman (E-mail 2)'; 'David Hart (E-mail)'; 'Keenan'; 'Joanne McCrea'; 'Jessica Herbert (E-mail 2)'; 'Kathy Harper (E-mail)'; Susan at cs.umb.edu
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Contemporary materials in Historic Districts
>> 
>> In reading the recent posts regarding the use of contemporary materials in cases involving historic rehabilitation, I was struck by the fact that no one referred to the Secretary of Interior?s Standards for historic rehabilitation.  A copy is attached. It seems to me these standards should be a point of departure in any conversation regarding the use of contemporary materials.  As chairman of my town?s CPA committee, we are required to ensure compliance with the Standards in any historic rehabilitation project which is approved at town meeting.
>> 
>> Jim O?Rourke
>> Somerset Historical Commission
>> 
>> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu<mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Patricia Kelleher
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:02 AM
>> To: 'Chris Warner' <chriswarnerarch at gmail.com<mailto:chriswarnerarch at gmail.com>>; masshistpres at cs.umb.edu<mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>> Cc: Susan at cs.umb.edu<mailto:Susan at cs.umb.edu>; Larry Spang (E-mail) <spang at arrowstreet.com<mailto:spang at arrowstreet.com>>; Reed Cutting <attorneycutting at gmail.com<mailto:attorneycutting at gmail.com>>; Jane Turiel <janeturiel at me.com<mailto:janeturiel at me.com>>; Laurie Weisman (E-mail) <salemknitter at comcast.net<mailto:salemknitter at comcast.net>>; Laurie Weisman (E-mail 2) <laurie.e.weisman at state.ma.us<mailto:laurie.e.weisman at state.ma.us>>; David Hart (E-mail) <davidatsalem at comcast.net<mailto:davidatsalem at comcast.net>>; Keenan <sue at suekeenan.com<mailto:sue at suekeenan.com>>; Joanne McCrea (jfitzmc429 at gmail.com<mailto:jfitzmc429 at gmail.com>) <jfitzmc429 at gmail.com<mailto:jfitzmc429 at gmail.com>>; Kathy Harper (E-mail) <kharper345 at hotmail.com<mailto:kharper345 at hotmail.com>>; Jessica Herbert (E-mail 2) <jherbert5 at comcast.net<mailto:jherbert5 at comcast.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] Contemporary materials in Historic Districts
>> 
>> The Salem Historical Commission is also considering the appropriateness of new materials in the City?s historic districts and would be interested in hearing about the experience of other commissions in reviewing these materials.  Of particular interest is the appropriateness of fiberglass gutters as a replacement for deteriorated wood gutters.  The Commission is considering hosting a workshop on this topic next year and will forward information to the listserve when scheduled.
>> 
>> Patti Kelleher
>> 
>> -----------------------------
>> Patti Kelleher
>> Preservation Planner, City of Salem
>> Department of Planning & Community Development
>> 120 Washington Street, 3rd Floor
>> Salem, MA 01970
>> Phone: 978-619-5685/ Fax: 978-740-0404
>> pkelleher at salem.com<mailto:pkelleher at salem.com>
>> www.salem.com<http://www.salem.com>
>> Office Hours: Mon 8-3:30, Wed 8-3:30, Thurs 8-2:30
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu<mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu> [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Warner
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 1:07 PM
>> To: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu<mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
>> Subject: [MassHistPres] Contemporary materials in Historic Districts
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> This June, I was appointed to the Falmouth Historical Commission, so the learning curve is steep. In discussion at our last meeting, Chris Skelly's name came up as someone who may have helpful information as we try to evaluate the introduction of newer materials into the palatte that building owners can choose from as they renovate, especially for buildings newer than say 1950, as well as new buildings that are in Historic Districts.
>> 
>> In particular, for a Cape style house, an Architect proposed a deck railing system made of PVC. The manufacturer, Intex has a reputation, profiles and pricing targeted at the higher end. Owners like the lower maintenance vs. painted wood that is popular in non-historic parts of town.
>> 
>> Thinking big picture and long term, as newer buildings and structures are recognized as significant, can you steer us toward guidelines that might allow for newer materials? We also discussed cross pollination with other waterfront communities such as Nantucket, New Bedford, Boston, Salem, etc. for consistency, so as to avoid the trap of special cases.
>> Chris Skelly felt "this would be a great question to ask on our masshistpres listserve.  Are you a subscriber to the listserve?" I was not, so, I signed up and am reaching out to the larger group for input. Is there any history of, or precedent for this topic?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Chris Warner, Architect
>> Falmouth Historic Commission
>> ________________________________
>> Please note the Massachusetts Secretary of State's office has determined that most emails to and from municipal officials are public records. FMI please refer to: http://www.sec.state.ma.us/pre/preidx.htm.
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>> End of MassHistPres Digest, Vol 127, Issue 17
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