[MassHistPres] replacement windows

[Dennis De Witt]

Elizabeth

Well said.  Consistent with 40c Brookline’s LHDs allow like-kind, exact match single pane replacements, consistent with any other like kind replacement work — ¯comparable to what you describe on the farm building below.  It is very rare — normally is a window is in very rough shape.

I have known MHC to allow more appropriate appearing aluminum IG window systems on mill conversions to housing when all the old windows were gone or the openings had been filled in.

Dennis De Witt
Brookline


> On Mar 19, 2018, at 12:04 PM, Elizabeth Ware <eware at dracutma.gov> wrote:
> 
> I am very confused about window replacement policies and am equally as distressed as Dennis about historic communities wanting to allow replacement windows.
>  
> I am presently grappling with this issue on a municipal building (a 1900  former four room schoolhouse, with original chalkboards still on the walls!), which is to be sold to a non-profit to convert to affordable housing.  A $200k  grant of CPA funds from the Dracut CPC is being used to rehabilitate the exterior to Secretary of the Interior’s Standards with a preservation restriction on the exterior.  The windows are in good condition but do have lead paint.
>  
> Will replacement windows be allowed?  Since there is this debate, I contacted MHC about the window issue.  A long time staff person at MHC stated that unless the windows are non-functioning and in extremely poor condition, the existing windows should be restored and reused.  Only in extreme instances where the windows cannot be restored, should replacement windows be used and ONLY IF they are exact duplicates of the original window.  We know that the “original window” is likely not original to the building but certainly older and with more character than a new replacement window.  Most recently MHC allowed a group to have new single pane windows made to replace existing and poorly deteriorated windows on a farm building.  In this instance, the new windows apparently are being fabricated to the exact measurements and mullion characteristics of the existing windows.
>  
> Based on MHC stance, I see no replacement windows in the Dracut School house rehabilitation project.
>  
> On a more personal note, I live in a Victorian Italianate house in Newburyport. The house was in poor condition when I bought it but the “bones” were there.  Windows were original and  in good condition, with some windows having some broken glass and painted OPEN! Over time I’ve reglazed the offending windows and replaced the old aluminum storm windows with a better storm (from Harvey Industries).  The storm doors were in poor condition and were replaced with custom storm doors.  I could add an interior storm to the windows but after making these baseline improvements, the energy efficiency of my house was greatly improved for a house that has such a great volume.
>  
> As an aside, it was not uncommon to have window sales people call to solicit for new windows for my house.  When I explained the type of house and the fact that the windows were 42 inches by 96 inches on the first floor and 42 inches and 84 inches on the second floor, the salesman usually hung up!  If I had the opportunity to speak fully with the salesperson, I would say that repaired original single pane windows with true divided lights and a good storm window are an extremely efficient combination in attaining energy efficiency.
>  
> Today I went by a former school building in Beverly, MA. where the windows were replaced in concert with the building being converted to residential condos.  The windows look awful- they are not true divided light and just strips of something to mock window mullions.   It changed the entire look of this 1920s former school.
>  
> On a final note, I believe that we should all be following MHC’s stance that if the windows are restorable, they should be reglazed and reused, either with a good exterior or interior storm. (My preference is exterior storms to protect the single pane windows.)  The look and feel of the property are retained, as well as close to  the original fabric of the building as possible.
>  
> My two cents,
>  
> Betsy Ware
>  
> Director of Community Development
> Town of Dracut, MA.
> Telephone: 978-453-4557
>  
> From: MassHistPres [mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu>] On Behalf Of heartwood
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:55 PM
> To: Garrett Laws <copperandslate at gmail.com <mailto:copperandslate at gmail.com>>; Nancy Dole <nlouisedole at gmail.com <mailto:nlouisedole at gmail.com>>
> Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] replacement windows
>  
> I am in agreement with the feedback that has been offered thus far...
> we in the window restoration trade have our work cut out for us as we
> are not equipped with deep pockets for marketing our superior product
> and counter the hyperbole of the window replacement salesman...
>  
> at one ‘historic’ trade show years ago, pella windows was set up next to
> my booth...they had a full sized sample window on one side of their area
> and a sign that stated ‘you will never see finger jointed wood in our product’ on
> the other...and there it was, clear as a knot, a finger jointed frame clad with polyvinyl
> chloride (vinyl)!  sure, once the window was installed the homeowner couldn’t
> ‘see’ the finger jointed wood but it was there...we’ve all seen the foggy double pane
> glass in newer windows, where wonderful old wood windows once graced the
> building not 25 years prior...
>  
> windows are such an essential character of an old home...they exist for generations
> with grace and utility...keep your business local and hire a craftsperson who can make
> your windows energy efficient and ready for another century of use with not so regular
> maintenance...
>  
> nancy, I understand this can be a challenging position for historic commissions when a
> homeowner has drunk the replacement kool-aid...we need to continue educating folks
> about the long term costs of replacement windows...
>  
> https://www.forthepeople.com/class-action-lawyers/pella-windows-lawsuit/ <https://www.forthepeople.com/class-action-lawyers/pella-windows-lawsuit/>
> https://www.bobvila.com/posts/21056-rotting-mw-windows?page=1 <https://www.bobvila.com/posts/21056-rotting-mw-windows?page=1>
> https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/2010/03/22/daily46.html <https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/2010/03/22/daily46.html>
>  
> jade mortimer
> heartwood window restoration
> po box 114 1605 mohawk trail
> charlemont, ma 01339
> 413-625-8680
>  
> From: Garrett Laws <mailto:copperandslate at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 5:57 PM
> To: Nancy Dole <mailto:nlouisedole at gmail.com>
> Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
> Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] replacement windows
>  
> Nancy,
>  
> This is an age old problem and I’d say a large issue (not always addressed) is that manufacturers regularly change their model numbers etc. The other pressing issue is that there’s a larger lobby for the replacement window industry than the rebuild and add storms...
>  
> If the windows are built from old growth lumber, the house will never get that back again.
>  
> Distributing a “list” of approved manufacturers is essentially rubber stamping the potential removal of all historic windows in the town, I’d be very careful with that approach.
>  
> Garrett Laws
> Copper & Slate Co
> Waltham, ma
> 
> On Thursday, March 15, 2018, Nancy Dole <nlouisedole at gmail.com <mailto:nlouisedole at gmail.com>> wrote:
> We need to provide owners with a list of replacement windows that we would consider suitable. 
>  
> Plymouth HDC has a list, which I have. They have a list of acceptable windows for properties they feel have great historic significance, and another list for properties that they think do not have historic significance.
>  
> Could anyone forward me a list if your district has one, or tell me what you have approved?
>  
> People in our district are more and more often requesting permission to replace existing wooden windows with aluminum clad or vinyl windows that are energy efficient. We are deciding as they come to us on a case by case basis, and its difficult for everyone involved. The applicant has no idea what we will accept, our only guideline is we prefer wooden windows and repairing existing windows. But that is not what  need to know, since for the most part they want to switch to modern materials etc. they do not want the wood windows.
>  
> Other owners are not aware we might ok alum clad etc, and so they don't apply for them. We need to address this in a responsible way.
>  
> Thanks,
> Nancy Dole
> WTHDC
>  
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
>  
> Cheers,
> Garrett Laws
> 
> The Copper & Slate Company, Inc.
> Fine Roofing and Exterior Finish Carpentry
> 238 Calvary Street,
> Waltham, MA 02453
> Office: (781) 893-1916
> 
> LEAD FREE SINCE 2008
> 
> Work we do:
> 
> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP25cjZU2PWmMSCvOwtzV-eNvpIKsod3KMlgk-lQjkxQX0vvAtOaHR-cPAJhjBJIA?key=X1ZWZENYQV9XdHlydjZwZWZYdlZnVEVTSkdmQk5B <https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP25cjZU2PWmMSCvOwtzV-eNvpIKsod3KMlgk-lQjkxQX0vvAtOaHR-cPAJhjBJIA?key=X1ZWZENYQV9XdHlydjZwZWZYdlZnVEVTSkdmQk5B>
> 
> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNIUYHEIsrRiwNl4Qyoi1ClcAix-J_fcjxkUBoNdC2JLVesjq--Apn8RfkLoH2TPA?key=cXNLN2tRbDJDYVhCeGd0UmxDS01ZdlplSUhIdHhR <https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNIUYHEIsrRiwNl4Qyoi1ClcAix-J_fcjxkUBoNdC2JLVesjq--Apn8RfkLoH2TPA?key=cXNLN2tRbDJDYVhCeGd0UmxDS01ZdlplSUhIdHhR>
> https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOvDwOwOK9RTEX0AH18Y4--r3jmEP23luuSsboZQTay1hWl2DYvkPlXirhc6uOryg?key=X3BXeDVuY3hXaVZvLUE0YkxDTjhBc0s0VjhFZzhB <https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOvDwOwOK9RTEX0AH18Y4--r3jmEP23luuSsboZQTay1hWl2DYvkPlXirhc6uOryg?key=X3BXeDVuY3hXaVZvLUE0YkxDTjhBc0s0VjhFZzhB>
> 
> Where we've worked over the years:
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=206210316541901083869.00049065ef8543e1ef9c3&ll=42.40115,-71.126862&spn=0.125241,0.289421&t=h&z=12 <http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=206210316541901083869.00049065ef8543e1ef9c3&ll=42.40115,-71.126862&spn=0.125241,0.289421&t=h&z=12>
>  
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