[MassHistPres] New Alternative Materials

[George Triantaris]

This has become a big issue that comes up often.  Here in Harvard we
approve heat pump systems but want to be involved with the placement of the
condensers and the conduits.  This has been successful when property owners
come to us before they are installed but often they do not file an
application and we are confronted with a completed project that is not done
well.   In our town the building inspector has not required a permit for
installation (which in other cases would trigger him to alert us in
advance).  I am very interested in the argument that exterior conduits are
inefficient.  If true, this would be very helpful.  Thank you for this
topic!

George Triantaris,
Chair, Harvard Historical Commission

On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 4:37 PM twm3--- via MassHistPres <
masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> wrote:

> Chris & Ralph,
>
> Yes indeed the exterior piping for Mini Split HVAC is a real problem which
> may be prevented without regulations using the argument for energy saving
> that will help pay for their system. The exterior compressors and interior
> delivery heads require two insulated 1/2” pipes with a control / power wire
> between them delivering heat in or out of a building.
>
> At a seminar on energy detailing I asked if they have any energy loss
> calculations or guides we can use as a message to give to people installing
> mini spilt systems the logical reasons to run pipes inside.
>
> We can say;
> “It is far better to pay the extra labor cost to drill holes in floors and
> or walls for pipe runs inside vs outside between compressors and heads to
> save the energy loss outside. The decision for cheap looking and lower
> labor cost exterior pipe runs adds to the system cost by hurting payback at
> the same time as it lowers aesthetic value and resale value being outside."
>
> "Those exterior ugly plastic covers over pipe loose way too much heat in
> winter and add cost in all seasons..
> The problem to cover the pipes inside is either behind base, crown or
> corner trim. However it is simpler to open and patch a narrow strip of
> ceiling or floor that can hide pipes much better than trim cover and should
> be less or same cost as trim cover.”
>
> The problem is that carpenters are also needed while the Mini-Split
> plumbers and electricians just do pipe runs taking the easy path. The added
> carpenter cost needs to be compared to energy loss and I didn’t get an
> answer in the energy seminar, but there must be engineers out there who
> already have this comparison?
>
> Tris Metcalfe, AIA, Northampton
> .
>
> On Oct 26, 2023, at 9:54 AM, Ralph Slate via MassHistPres <
> masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris --
>
> One thing that I am seeing a lot of are ductless split AC/heat units.
> These are not being applied for, they are just appearing on houses. The SHC
> has no formal guidelines for these, so their appearance depends on the
> judgment of the installer, with some spectacularly poor results.
>
> Here are a few that I've documented:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/3qaLXZDfWrnrejjk8
>
> The volume of these will definitely increase since the state is advocating
> for them (and the technology *is* good). However there are ways these can
> be done in a more sensitive manner.
>
> Ralph Slate
> Springfield MA
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Oct, 2023 at 4:02 PM, Chris Skelly via MassHistPres <
> masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> wrote:
>
> To: mhc mhc listserve
> Hello all, I'd like to hear what new alternative materials are on the
> market and are showing up in your local historic district applications.
> Anything you had never heard of two or three years ago?  What do you wish
> you had in your design guidelines right now to address new alternative
> materials?  Have you heard of any new alternative materials not yet on the
> market that we might see at some point in the near future?
>
> *Chris Skelly*
> *Skelly Preservation Services*
> Community Planning and Preservation
> www.skellypreservationservices.com
> ccskelly12 at gmail.com
>
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-- 
Many thanks,

George Triantaris, Chair
Harvard Historical Commission
https://www.harvard-ma.gov/historical-commission
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