[MassHistPres] New Alternative Materials

[rcsmitharch at verizon.net]

One thing we have started to see in Swampscott is putting the outside condensers under a porch or deck.  It requires adequate air circulation, which means decks at least 5 feet or so above ground and lattice enclosures, but it does minimize the impact on historic landscapes and naturally steers the installation towards running the refrigerant piping through the basement.

 

Richard Smith

Swampscott Historic District Commission.

 

From: MassHistPres <masshistpres-bounces at cs.umb.edu> On Behalf Of twm3--- via MassHistPres
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 6:03 PM
To: Betty Slade <dcolebslade at aol.com>
Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] New Alternative Materials

 

Hi Betty,

The biggest design placement issue is where to put the big compressors outside [they avg 24w x12d x 24h to48” high]. It can be set away from the wall as long as pipes can be protected on ground running toward a building. They can have a lattice surround removable for repair and or bushes that screen them preserving a building's appearance as much as reasonable.

 

 The site location needs to not be too far from the heads placed inside but can with only more piping cost and if inside any net energy losses remain inside. 

 

The ability to NOT have them plastered on the outside is definitely preventable by running them below floors or above ceilings. A District regulation should insist running pipes inside. A well insulated ground trench box can solve exterior placement problems but costs do add up,, yet all costs can get help in pay back by operation energy costs and resale value.

Tris    





On Oct 26, 2023, at 4:56 PM, Betty Slade <dcolebslade at aol.com <mailto:dcolebslade at aol.com> > wrote:

 

Mini-splits are appearing around here. It seems very hard to place them in sites unseen because our houses are so tightly packed  facing the river and the street and these pipes can only enter the houses at certain places because of the construction of the house. They are not being taken up as issues with the Westport Historical Commission.

 

Betty Slade

Chair, Community Preservation Committee

Westport

 

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In a message dated 10/26/2023 4:37:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>  writes: 

 

Chris & Ralph, 

 

Yes indeed the exterior piping for Mini Split HVAC is a real problem which may be prevented without regulations using the argument for energy saving that will help pay for their system. The exterior compressors and interior delivery heads require two insulated 1/2” pipes with a control / power wire between them delivering heat in or out of a building.

 

At a seminar on energy detailing I asked if they have any energy loss calculations or guides we can use as a message to give to people installing mini spilt systems the logical reasons to run pipes inside.

 

We can say; 

“It is far better to pay the extra labor cost to drill holes in floors and or walls for pipe runs inside vs outside between compressors and heads to save the energy loss outside. The decision for cheap looking and lower labor cost exterior pipe runs adds to the system cost by hurting payback at the same time as it lowers aesthetic value and resale value being outside."

 

"Those exterior ugly plastic covers over pipe loose way too much heat in winter and add cost in all seasons..

The problem to cover the pipes inside is either behind base, crown or corner trim. However it is simpler to open and patch a narrow strip of ceiling or floor that can hide pipes much better than trim cover and should be less or same cost as trim cover.”

 

The problem is that carpenters are also needed while the Mini-Split plumbers and electricians just do pipe runs taking the easy path. The added carpenter cost needs to be compared to energy loss and I didn’t get an answer in the energy seminar, but there must be engineers out there who already have this comparison? 

 

Tris Metcalfe, AIA, Northampton

.    

 

On Oct 26, 2023, at 9:54 AM, Ralph Slate via MassHistPres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> > wrote:

 

 

Hi Chris --

One thing that I am seeing a lot of are ductless split AC/heat units. These are not being applied for, they are just appearing on houses. The SHC has no formal guidelines for these, so their appearance depends on the judgment of the installer, with some spectacularly poor results.

Here are a few that I've documented:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3qaLXZDfWrnrejjk8

The volume of these will definitely increase since the state is advocating for them (and the technology *is* good). However there are ways these can be done in a more sensitive manner.

Ralph Slate
Springfield MA

 

 

On Wed, 25 Oct, 2023 at 4:02 PM, Chris Skelly via MassHistPres <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu <mailto:masshistpres at cs.umb.edu> > wrote: 

 

To: mhc mhc listserve

Hello all, I'd like to hear what new alternative materials are on the market and are showing up in your local historic district applications.  Anything you had never heard of two or three years ago?  What do you wish you had in your design guidelines right now to address new alternative materials?  Have you heard of any new alternative materials not yet on the market that we might see at some point in the near future?   

 

Chris Skelly

Skelly Preservation Services

Community Planning and Preservation

 <http://www.skellypreservationservices.com/> www.skellypreservationservices.com

ccskelly12 at gmail.com <mailto:ccskelly12 at gmail.com> 

 

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