[MassHistPres] a hex on plastic gutters

[James Hadley]

Well, after going through all the firmly convinced opinions on AZEK and PVC 
I decided to check  the US Green Building Council's attitude on PVC.  As of 
today my research does not indicate that the USGBC precludes its use in LEED 
certified projects, in fact the latest decision I could find indicates that 
the USGBC decided against incentives for eliminating it from buildings.
I participated in a USGBC conference some years ago where this issue first 
came up. It was clear that the industry representatives were actively 
lobbying the USGBC (which is largely an industry group, although not 
entirely so.) The latest information I have on this entire issue is that the 
USGBC believes the use of PVC in not a yes or no issue - it is nuanced.
So if there is information out there about the specifics of the AZEK 
manufacturing process, or whether the factories have bad environmental 
records it should be brought forward. Otherwise I'm concerned that knee-jerk 
reactions will dominate the discussion. I am not a fan of the myth of 
maintenance free solutions, but I have seen so many deteriorated Greek 
Revival gutter/ eave details that I believe some open mindedness is in 
order.
James W Hadley AIA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jade" <jade at crocker.com>
To: "Sam Bird" <greenbird-architect at comcast.net>; "Deane Rykerson" 
<rykersonarchitecture at comcast.net>
Cc: <masshistpres at cs.umb.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] a hex on plastic gutters


> plain copper may be a better idea though lead laden jet fuel will be with 
> us at least for the foreseeable future --raining down on us as it has for 
> decades...so much for green...
>
> before installing trim, i back prime AND paint, essentially sealing the 
> wood from the elements...since the interior of the gutter will be sealed 
> from water and moisture, and the fascia has a drip edge, i don't see water 
> hanging around to cause acceleration of deterioration...expansion  and 
> contraction over time will cause the paint to fail, but that is why 
> maintenance is such and important piece of the puzzle...PAINT IS THE GREAT 
> MAINTAINER......
>
> i agree that one way of looking at maintenance is securing 'green 
> jobs'...argh, did i say 'green'??
>
> ...jade
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Sam Bird
>  To: Deane Rykerson
>  Cc: masshistpres at cs.umb.edu
>  Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 4:54 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MassHistPres] a hex on plastic gutters
>
>
>  While I agree that PVC (Azek et al) is an environmental disaster,
>  let's stop to think about LCC (lead coated copper). Eaves and gutter
>  bottoms are subject to great wear and erosion over time - where is
>  all that water and lead going? I believe the manufacture of LCC is
>  now all offshore as domestic companies can't do it and comply with
>  environmental regs - that has to tell us something about LCC.
>
>  Also, sealing one side of a piece of wood and not the other (in this
>  case the inside of the gutter) is not a great idea in terms of
>  preserving the wood long term. This leads to differential drying and
>  premature checking and failure.
>
>  This is a situation where there may not be an ideally historically
>  correct and green solution except for the way it has been done for
>  ages - ie. a wood gutter, well pitched, faithfully cleaned and oiled
>  at least twice a year and then replaced every 20 to 30 years. If the
>  push is to create "green jobs" perhaps the job of maintenance of the
>  green replacements for "maintenance free" materials is one place to
>  start.
>
>  Sam Bird AIA, LEED AP
>
>
>  On Aug 4, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Deane Rykerson wrote:
>
>  >
>  > On Aug 2, 2008, at 11:45 AM, James Hadley wrote:
>  >
>  >> There is a wood replica gutter available from Azek. It may be one
>  >> of the
>  >> better uses for Azek.
>  >> Jim Hadley, Orleans Historical Commission
>  >
>  >
>  > please, please, please don't use plastic (except maybe mixed with
>  > wood for decking).  What an environmental disaster in manufacture.
>  >
>  > We are using doug fir gutters at Hancock-Clarke in Lexington.  One
>  > section was bought at the lumber yard 30 feet long.  Here is a
>  > detail to line the wood gutter with copper (in this case lead-
>  > coated), adapted from Arron Sturgis and Rex Passion.
>  >
>  >
>  > Deane Rykerson AIA
>  > Rykerson Architecture
>  > 1 Salt Marsh Lane
>  > Kittery Point ME 03905
>  > 207-439-8755
>  > <Picture 7.png>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > and the real thing.
>  >
>  >
>  > <Picture 9.png>
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